Hmong Community Reacts to Gran Torino

nkaujhmooblauj

sarNie Adult
i read this at work today and i just wanted to share it with you guys. i still don't like this movie because it's filled with stereotypes. lol.

At least one group of Hmong Americans gives thumbs up to "Gran Torino," Clint Eastwood's urban drama and the first major Hollywood portrayal of Hmong families.

The film revolves around a bigoted Korean War veteran who takes on a gang-infested neighborhood. The movie scored well with a group of Sacramento Hmong, invited to see the local premiere Friday with The Bee, for accurately reflecting challenges they face in cities throughout America.

But many of the 16 Hmong viewers, from ages 12 to 87, said the movie missed an opportunity to deliver critical context: It didn't adequately explain why Hmong refugees wound up in the United States in the first place.

Except for the weaponry – Uzis apparently haven't been used by Hmong gangs here – "the gang activity in the movie is pretty realistic," said Neng Vang of the Hmong Leadership Network. "They're going to see one side of the Hmong culture and that is the gang side."

Viewers who know little about the Hmong could get a "very negative" impression, said Crystal Vang, a Sacramento-area activist. "Maybe they should have included news clips of the war against the communists back in Laos, how the Hmong escaped to avoid being killed and the refugee camps in Thailand."

The Hmong originated in China several thousand years ago and once had their own kingdom. But many were forced to grow opium and were later driven into Southeast Asia by Chinese emperors.

Most resettled in mountain villages in Laos. During the Vietnam War, tens of thousands were recruited by the CIA as guerrilla fighters. They fought communists until Laos and Vietnam fell in 1975.

Thousands escaped into Thailand, where they spent years in refugee camps before resettling in France, Australia and the United States.

Today there are more than 300,000 Hmong in the United States – about 25,000 in the Sacramento area. Most came with little education, but as they've assimilated, the community has grown to include college professors, doctors and teachers.

"Gran Torino" is set in Detroit. Hmong shamanism, traditional ceremonies and families struggling to get by in a sea of gang violence surround Eastwood's character, retired auto worker Walt Kowalski.

Kowalski, recently widowed, is an angry man. Besides his dog, Kowalski's prized possession is his prime 1972 Army green Ford Gran Torino.

"What are you going to do with it when you die?" asks Kowalski's granddaughter, who goes everywhere – including her grandmother's funeral – with her pierced belly button exposed.

Kowalski catches Thao, a Hmong teen living next door, trying to steal the car.

When he learns Thao is being pressured by a gang, Kowalski becomes vintage Eastwood vigilante.

"The movie's about Clint, it's not about Hmong history and culture," said Neng Vang, who has battled the Hmong gang problem in Sacramento for 18 years.

Kowalski stereotypes everyone. He peppers all races with racial slurs. But he comes to respect his Hmong neighbors.

In one scene he tells Thao's older sister Sue – who talks back to three African American punks threatening her – "trying to get yourself killed? I thought you Asian girls were supposed to be smart."

When Sue invites him to a barbecue he says, "keep your hands off my dog." He also commits a serious cultural breach, touching Hmong kids on the head. Hmong believe the head is sacred; it's where the soul resides.

Kowalski tearfully admits, "I have more in common with these gooks than I do with my own spoiled, rotten family."

T.T. Vang, a Hmong radio host, said the Kowalski character reminded him of a landlord he had in Rhode Island. "The majority of Americans see us the way Clint sees us," particularly older Americans, said the 55-year-old Vang.

The Hmong who saw the movie Friday did not appear too bothered by its racial slurs. Instead, some elders said depictions of Hmong ceremonies were too casual. Houa Xiong, an 87-year-old shaman, said true shamans hold birth ceremonies by the front door and flip buffalo horns differently.

Her four grandchildren – Amy, Yeng, Andy and Pashia – said the movie's violence was beyond anything they'd heard about in Sacramento.

"It's kind of messed up, Hmong people turning against their own culture," said Andy, a 14-year-old high school freshman. "I've never known gangs raping their own cousin. And if you don't want to join a gang they don't beat you up."

Younger members of the group generally thought the movie might turn Hmong kids away from gangs. But parents said if Hmong youths are pressured into joining gangs – or sexually assaulted – they don't believe there's anywhere for them to turn.

"My son was going into Thao's footprints, but we don't know how to get help," said Alie Yang, 39, of the Hmong Leadership Network. "Five years ago he got jumped at Burbank by Mien and Mexican kids and ran away from home and skipped school for three months."

She tried to get him counseling, "but if your child refuses it, there's nothing you can do."

Back in Laos, Hmong clan leaders would meet to resolve problems and make offenders pay fines. Here, however, parents have often totally lost control, T.T. Vang said.

"If it involves gangs, nobody wants to touch it," Neng Vang added, particularly if sexual abuse is involved. "Part of it is pride and saving face."

Added Crystal Vang, "The family's afraid the rapist would get out and come back in a few years and kill you."

Neng Vang said activists are trying to attack truancy, improve the gang hotline and build after-school programs.

"We're looking to change Hmong culture from the bottom up, through education and prevention, so we don't have to be in a situation like Thao and Sue are in," he said.

In "Gran Torino," gangsters are ultimately made to pay. In real life, though, this story wouldn't be over, some Hmong viewers said.

"They have other relatives and friends that are going to go after Thao and his family – it's not going to have a happy ending," said Alie Yang.


** credit to sacbee.com
click here for the article
 

Mae

sarNie Adult
I've said it before...but I'll say it again... I'm not a supporter of this movie because it further perpetuates negative stereotypes and impressions about the Hmong people...and they claim it's supposed to be authentic!
 

*__*

sarNie Egg
Can someone just summarize what is being said in the article..
too lazy to read word by word sentence by sentence.
I haven't seen the movie-I'll wait till it comes out on dvd

I don't support it. That's just me don't get offend.
 

red_handed

sarNie Egg
Can someone just summarize what is being said in the article..
too lazy to read word by word sentence by sentence.
I haven't seen the movie-I'll wait till it comes out on dvd

I don't support it. That's just me don't get offend.
BASICALLY, THEY SAID THAT HMONG PEOPLE FROM SACRAMENTO WENT TO WATCH IT
SOME PEOPLE LIKED IT, BUT SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T
FOR EXAMPLE: IF YOU SAW THE MOVIE
THE SHAMAN HU PLIG IN THE LIVING ROOM
AND A REAL HMONG SHAMAN SAID THAT IT WAS NOT PROPERLY PORTRAYED
IT'S USUALLY DONE AT THE DOOR
THIS STUPID MOVIE WAS NOT EVEN ABOUT HMONG PEOPLE
IT WAS JUST ABOUT LAME ASS CLINT EASTWOOD AND STEREOTYPES OF THE HMONG
 

pyang

sarNie Egg
THIS STUPID MOVIE WAS NOT EVEN ABOUT HMONG PEOPLE
it's not suppose to be about the hmong people, is it? i mean yeah they have hmong characters but those character could've been another race too.

i didn't read word to word just kindof scan through it but i heard it brought in 29 million for this week's box office. i haven't seen this yet but i think if you want to enjoy it you should be open mind about it and not let the stereotype get to you. they can't make it to everyone's liking.
 

nkaujhmooblauj

sarNie Adult
have you guys read the people's comments on the article?
there is some pretty nasty stuff that people are saying about hmong people
based on this movie...
 

pyang

sarNie Egg
^ that's why i didn't bother reading the comments. just alot of ignorant people commenting.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
There are idiots out there that would say negative things about just anything and everything. Idiots will always be idiots. It's just who they are.

Seriously...seriously...

This movie is NOT about Hmong. Hence the name, "Gran Torino." Its purpose is not to enlighten America about Hmong. So they don't need to show how Hmong people ended up in America. In other words, they don't need to dig into Hmong history.

Being so close-mined might just discourage other producers to cast Hmong actors in the future.
 

nkaujhmooblauj

sarNie Adult
people say it's not about hmong people
but.. why in the world would they invite a group of hmong people to go see it
and then ask them what they thought about it?
obviously.. because it was supposed to be portraying the hmong people
and they want to know if it was done correctly..
which.. it was not..
lol
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Maybe cause this is the first Hollywood film with Hmong people in it. This movie is about a guy who befriends his Hmong neighbor. The focus is REALLY on Walter, not Hmong. Hmong is just one part of the movie. Remember that this is the FIRST film…therefore there will be some inaccuracies, which there are.
 

superwoman

sarNie Egg
Acting was bad even from Clint Eastwood. I mean even if he had chosen Mien, Laotian, Khmer, Vietnamese, Chinese or any other Asian group instead of Hmong, it could have worked out and still be popular. Nominations are for Clint, not Bee or Ahney… what does that really say about everything. I could have made the same movie and I bet it wouldn’t even make it to the theaters. To be honest, its popularity is due to Eastwood. I have nothing against him.

All in all, I really liked the grandma. She is freaking hilarious. I liked how she would always blame it on the white guy (Eastwood). My favorite scene is when Sue brought Mr. Kowalski to her home and the grandma was like “Why did you bring in the White dude?” and off she goes bitching at him. Sue says, “She is welcoming you.” And I couldn’t help but laugh when Mr. Kowalski replied, “No, she isn’t.” Sue then admit, “Yeah she isn’t.” This happened often in my house. Two of my brothers’ girlfriends are not Hmong and my mom likes to curse in Hmong when they come over. LMAO but my mom has come to like them even though she does not admit to it. You could tell the grandma liked Mr. Kowalski but continues to complain when he is around.

I think people are smart enough that not only Asians are big gang bangers. And yes I never heard of anything close to cousin raping cousin. I know a few gang members and they don’t even think of such despicable thoughts. The end got me a little teary but them dressing up in Hmong clothes at the end was weird. I am proud that they wanted to wear them but it does not tie in to the movie.

Yes this movie has nothing to do with Hmong people. Like I mentioned above, another Asian ethnicity group can portrayed it. If Mr. Kowalski was a Iraq veteran, any middle east ethnicity can take the role.
 

jafritz

sarNie Egg
my family thought it was more comical, not so much a drama...they looked at it from the bright side...maybe this is the begininning of the recognition of hmong people in america...i think that is what we should look at it as...if the movie portrayed hmongppl as bad or wrong etc then speak out and let america know :wacko:
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Where I'm from, I've heard and seen the worst of gang activities. Yes, worser than what happened in Gran Torino.

If any of you are from Stockton and grew up around gang territories (at least they claim so), you might have heard, seen or was a victim of gang related crimes.
 

KhoOnxNouxWanxJai

Staff member
Honestly, I actually liked the movie minus the drive by and beating and such of Sue. I know they could have done a better job with their research into the Hmong community before making the movie, but at the same time I can't blame their lack of knowledge on the quality of the movie. I thought about it in this way, no offense to people who choose to take this offensively, but the movie wasn't entirely suppose to be about the Hmong community. It was about the car and how Thao choosing to steal it lead him to reformation. I'm sure that the movie was actually suppose to be about Mr. Kolowski's own personal demons such as learning to accept Asians and understand them rather than putting all his war anger on them. If you look at it from both sides of the fence if this had been a movie produced and directed by an Asian producer and director then they would have most likely portrayed Mr. Kolowski in a more stereotypical way such as they did with the Asians. For example, sometimes if you watch an Asian movie you would notice how they portray the American military men sometimes as dogs who tries to rape and harass women. Who go around thinking they are the shiz because they are from America and they are in the Military. They are sometimes portrayed as men who have no culture or shame in Asian movies.

Also, I think that if they had chosen to portray the African American culture the topic would have been very sensitive. I'm sure there would have been some protest and raids. If they had chosen to portray a middle eastern country it would have been a huge controversy considering the war in Iraq.

Another thing I think the movie was trying to teach was, "Respect." In the movie Mr. Kolowski virtually demands and expect respect from others. Not until he starts getting close to Sue's family is where he starts to receive respect willingly rather than having to force it out of people. He also develops respect for someone other than himself.


The negative about this movie in my opinion:


They should have explained a little of what "Hmong" is because there were many people who mistook Hmong and Laotians for the same thing. I had to explain to them the general history, but yet they still refuse to believe that Hmong and Laotians are different. I had to explain to them how they shouldn't generalize that Laotian's and Hmong aren't the same thing and that real Lao and Hmong people would be offended if they choose to mix up their culture like that.


The weird thing about this movie was while I was watching. I had never seen any trailers or anything. My family was like let's go watch it. We watched it and I wasn't sure which Asian ethnicity was in the movie neither did my family. So right when they start speaking. I'm like they are Hmong! LOL. Everyone was like no they are Vietnamese. Even the people in the theater! I'm like No no they are Hmong! I know because i can recognize the language! I even understood parts of it (Which was very odd to me). Then after Sue told Mr Kolowski about her culture everyone realize I was right lol.



Edit: Another thing about the gang activity. Honestly, I don't like what happened in the movie. At the same time I can't say that that is the most violent thing I've ever seen. I've seen things way more violent than that. I grew up in Oakland California. Some argue that the gang activity isn't as bad as Stockton, but it's just as bad. I also visited Compton often and the stuff in the movie was some of the very few. For some people I guess it's so much because they probably grew up where Gang activity wasn't really a topic. Now I live in Dallas where sometimes for gang initiations they have random sniping of people. So I guess the gang stuff isn't really so new to me.
 

Mae

sarNie Adult
Where I'm from, I've heard and seen the worst of gang activities. Yes, worser than what happened in Gran Torino.

If any of you are from Stockton and grew up around gang territories (at least they claim so), you might have heard, seen or was a victim of gang related crimes.
Really, it's that bad in Stockton? you mean Hmong gangs? Hmmm, I've never grown up around Hmong gangs ever...my city is predominantly a white community so I've heard of Hmong gangs before and heard of fights at tournaments, but never really grew up around any of it.... I would never want to be surrounded by that kind of territory...it's so scary!
 

ycha07

sarNie Egg
i read this at work today and i just wanted to share it with you guys. i still don't like this movie because it's filled with stereotypes. lol.

At least one group of Hmong Americans gives thumbs up to "Gran Torino," Clint Eastwood's urban drama and the first major Hollywood portrayal of Hmong families.

The film revolves around a bigoted Korean War veteran who takes on a gang-infested neighborhood. The movie scored well with a group of Sacramento Hmong, invited to see the local premiere Friday with The Bee, for accurately reflecting challenges they face in cities throughout America.

But many of the 16 Hmong viewers, from ages 12 to 87, said the movie missed an opportunity to deliver critical context: It didn't adequately explain why Hmong refugees wound up in the United States in the first place.

Except for the weaponry – Uzis apparently haven't been used by Hmong gangs here – "the gang activity in the movie is pretty realistic," said Neng Vang of the Hmong Leadership Network. "They're going to see one side of the Hmong culture and that is the gang side."

Viewers who know little about the Hmong could get a "very negative" impression, said Crystal Vang, a Sacramento-area activist. "Maybe they should have included news clips of the war against the communists back in Laos, how the Hmong escaped to avoid being killed and the refugee camps in Thailand."

The Hmong originated in China several thousand years ago and once had their own kingdom. But many were forced to grow opium and were later driven into Southeast Asia by Chinese emperors.

Most resettled in mountain villages in Laos. During the Vietnam War, tens of thousands were recruited by the CIA as guerrilla fighters. They fought communists until Laos and Vietnam fell in 1975.

Thousands escaped into Thailand, where they spent years in refugee camps before resettling in France, Australia and the United States.

Today there are more than 300,000 Hmong in the United States – about 25,000 in the Sacramento area. Most came with little education, but as they've assimilated, the community has grown to include college professors, doctors and teachers.

"Gran Torino" is set in Detroit. Hmong shamanism, traditional ceremonies and families struggling to get by in a sea of gang violence surround Eastwood's character, retired auto worker Walt Kowalski.

Kowalski, recently widowed, is an angry man. Besides his dog, Kowalski's prized possession is his prime 1972 Army green Ford Gran Torino.

"What are you going to do with it when you die?" asks Kowalski's granddaughter, who goes everywhere – including her grandmother's funeral – with her pierced belly button exposed.

Kowalski catches Thao, a Hmong teen living next door, trying to steal the car.

When he learns Thao is being pressured by a gang, Kowalski becomes vintage Eastwood vigilante.

"The movie's about Clint, it's not about Hmong history and culture," said Neng Vang, who has battled the Hmong gang problem in Sacramento for 18 years.

Kowalski stereotypes everyone. He peppers all races with racial slurs. But he comes to respect his Hmong neighbors.

In one scene he tells Thao's older sister Sue – who talks back to three African American punks threatening her – "trying to get yourself killed? I thought you Asian girls were supposed to be smart."

When Sue invites him to a barbecue he says, "keep your hands off my dog." He also commits a serious cultural breach, touching Hmong kids on the head. Hmong believe the head is sacred; it's where the soul resides.

Kowalski tearfully admits, "I have more in common with these gooks than I do with my own spoiled, rotten family."

T.T. Vang, a Hmong radio host, said the Kowalski character reminded him of a landlord he had in Rhode Island. "The majority of Americans see us the way Clint sees us," particularly older Americans, said the 55-year-old Vang.

The Hmong who saw the movie Friday did not appear too bothered by its racial slurs. Instead, some elders said depictions of Hmong ceremonies were too casual. Houa Xiong, an 87-year-old shaman, said true shamans hold birth ceremonies by the front door and flip buffalo horns differently.

Her four grandchildren – Amy, Yeng, Andy and Pashia – said the movie's violence was beyond anything they'd heard about in Sacramento.

"It's kind of messed up, Hmong people turning against their own culture," said Andy, a 14-year-old high school freshman. "I've never known gangs raping their own cousin. And if you don't want to join a gang they don't beat you up."

Younger members of the group generally thought the movie might turn Hmong kids away from gangs. But parents said if Hmong youths are pressured into joining gangs – or sexually assaulted – they don't believe there's anywhere for them to turn.

"My son was going into Thao's footprints, but we don't know how to get help," said Alie Yang, 39, of the Hmong Leadership Network. "Five years ago he got jumped at Burbank by Mien and Mexican kids and ran away from home and skipped school for three months."

She tried to get him counseling, "but if your child refuses it, there's nothing you can do."

Back in Laos, Hmong clan leaders would meet to resolve problems and make offenders pay fines. Here, however, parents have often totally lost control, T.T. Vang said.

"If it involves gangs, nobody wants to touch it," Neng Vang added, particularly if sexual abuse is involved. "Part of it is pride and saving face."

Added Crystal Vang, "The family's afraid the rapist would get out and come back in a few years and kill you."

Neng Vang said activists are trying to attack truancy, improve the gang hotline and build after-school programs.

"We're looking to change Hmong culture from the bottom up, through education and prevention, so we don't have to be in a situation like Thao and Sue are in," he said.

In "Gran Torino," gangsters are ultimately made to pay. In real life, though, this story wouldn't be over, some Hmong viewers said.

"They have other relatives and friends that are going to go after Thao and his family – it's not going to have a happy ending," said Alie Yang.


** credit to sacbee.com
click here for the article
 

babeyelmo

sarNie Hatchling
i dont understand why they didnt like it?...i love it!..haha
and yeah ofcourse its gonna be stereotype its the way Clint's character see hmong and the world revolving around him.
and about the shaman thing ofcourse we as hmong people could tell thats its wrong but
i dont think white people or other race would notice it at all....*shrug*
 

frog

sarNie Egg
I watched the movie and I like it. It was a good movie. One of the best film this year, I believe, at least for me.
 

mai92

sarNie Adult
iT's fUnnY cAuSE OnE oF tHe RNs i wOrkEd wItH reAd tHIs nEws aNd asKed mE abOUt tHE hMonG cUltUre...
i tHouGht iT wAs fUnnY hOw sO mAnY pEOpLe hAvEn'T hEaRd Of OuR hMOng peePs yEt...
:):):)
 
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