[Ch3] Bpoop Phaeh Saniwaat (Broadcast Thai) : Pope Thanawat / Bella Ranee

Fikachu

Fikachu

Good to be back!
MKfan132 said:
Hi :).
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Hi*waves* It's been quite silent yesterday(I say this because it's 1.13a.m here) with only @lamchieu and @TheJoker online posting loads of comments.I haven't replied to them but I will once I wake up later on.Glad you got to meet your bestie so soon:aaaaa::thumbup:I'll chat and post more tomorrow:)

Bella will have another event on 28 October at 2p.m (Bangkok timing) at Robinson Roi for AIS event.So you can look forward to more posts of her event!I'm pretty much free today except for the essay that I have to start on.So I'll be online to chat or post:)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpJvV6inw_Y/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1awer8vkbib43
 
A

Amata

sarNie Hatchling
:):)
Fikachu said:
Thank you so much!:icon12::clap::thumbup:You've really explained everything in detail.No wonder you said you were compiling. Your compiling skills are not bad at all. In fact, it's awesome!:thumbup:You took so much effort. Really, Thank you so much:icon12:
I understand why you said no.2 is complicated now. I read your post over and over again, I watched the scene twice, I even went back a few episodes because I think there was 1 scene that is connected to this scene in no.2. I'll explain my about thoughts while and after reading your post:):
I didn't know there's so many meanings for this one sentence and how changing that one word at the end can change the understanding of the whole scene/ character. No wonder people find it difficult to translate. After thinking and doing my own research for an hour, I completely understand what you're trying to say:thumbup::):clap:

"So we have to guess from his face, his eyes, what he said, what he did and use our imagination. So if we interpret it without knowing / seeing the context of the lakorn, we would misunderstand."

Since you said that, I rewatched that scene. I rewatched the first time to see what both of them said before and after that sentence. I rewatched the second time to see what they were doing (i.e. at their eyes, their body movements).

Firstly, I'll talk about the initial point of our discussion which was the 'who' in Date's dialogue. After all this, I completely understand and agree with your thought that by saying this sentence, Date thinks that Kade copied the person who taeng the klon but he didn't know who the person who taeng it was. I realised that during the scene, Date kept looking into her eyes and stepped closer towards her. It's like he's pressuring her to give away signs of the truth. When she didn't understand what he was doing and looked straight into his eyes, he said "I like that poem" (according to subs). She looked stunned at first, then she tried to avoid by saying that she's sleepy. When he blocked her way, only then did she look like she wanted to confess. When Date saw her distressed face and heard the words "truth is..." (according to subs), then Date said the sentence. So in a way, he didn't want to embarrass her but at the same time, it's like hinting at her that he knows what she did.

Throughout this whole scene, you'll realise that Date kept looking into her eyes. Why?
I remembered a scene in episode 3. Date and his parents were talking about Karakade being so different and the truth in relation to the death of E-Dang. Date's father said that he believed her. When Date ask how did he know if she was being honest, he told him to look at her eyes for the truth. In this scene, he did what his father asked him to do and in a way, he did get the truth from her.

Secondly, I'll talk about my thoughts when I rewatched the scene. This whole discussion about the 'who' in Date's sentence started because Kade was asking Date why he laughed at her. Suddenly, other than our discussion, my mind thought of another question. Why did he laugh? He said he didn't laugh at her. Then what was he laughing at? I think his sentence hinted the answer but it wasn't clear to me.

"Come visit again, Mae Ying Janward" - Kade
"I still don't know" - Janward

For the first time, I paid attention to Date's expression in the background. He look stunned at Janward's reply. Why? Because she's always polite and she will always visit the house (because of Date) if she has the chance. Because whatever Karakade did in the past (i.e. threw something onto Janward's head), Janward will still visit the house. But that one day with Kade who stole everyone's hearts and attention with her Nam Pla Wan and her klon suddenly made her hesitant to visit again. After that stunned look and looking at Janward walk out the door, he looked back at her and laughed.

"How weren't you laughing?I saw you and many times too." - Kade
Date's spoken answer was the sentence we discussed.

So I think your thought on no.2 is absolutely right.But I also now think that Date's sentence has another implied meaning.I think Date's sentence has 2 implied meanings:

  1. Date knows Kade copied from someone but didn’t know who that someone was.

2.Date is impressed with Kade.​
Why did he laugh? Because he must have found it ironic. It was ironic how Karakade who was useless in carrying out duties suddenly came out from the kitchen and presented them with Nam Pla Wan. It was ironic when no one thought Kade was good at poetry but she exceeded their expectations. It was ironic that no matter what the old Karakade did, Janward always came back; but this new person didn't do a single bad thing and suddenly Janward becomes hesitant. Our interpretation is that Date said he like the klon not because of the person Kade copied from. I think he's trying to say he likes the poem because Kade recited it. And because it's from Kade, he's impressed with her. The lakorn interpretation of the klon she recited was to appreciate the partner who is by your side because such a person is rare to find. To him, it's as if Kade is asking him in an intelligent, civilised and mature way to notice and appreciate her presence. Seeing that it came from Kade who was neither civilised nor mature and there's ambiguity on the intelligence part in the past, he's even more amazed than if it was recited by anybody else. That's another irony.All the ironies of the day must have opened Date's eyes and mind about Kade.​

What do you think about my thoughts?
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@Fikachu I’m sorry answering your question late and sorry for the long post as well. English is not my native language. I just make it sure that you would understand what I mean and I find it is easier to tell you my thought, then you could get the answers there.

You ask me why Date laughed. My answer is “I don’t know”. We don’t know his thought at all. What I can do is only to guess from the context that might be possible or impossible. Sometimes there are many things happen then when we come to a certain point and look back we would like to laugh. Date might be like that. Anyway when Date told Kade that he didn’t laugh at her. I believe him.

Before the poetry scene there was one of the scenes that I don’t like. That is the scene when Date told Kade back to her room but she said why Mae Ying Jaanwaad who was a woman also still sat there. They had argument in the presence of adults. The way she spoke to Ko Sa Lek including her voice and her manners was too aggressive. She stood up while adults still sat. She didn’t respect Khun Loong who was the host, his guests and Date (her betrothed). If this is not a lakorn and Kade were in Ayutthaya Era I don’t think she would have allowed to join in the conversation again. (I don’t understand why the script writer or the director made such scene. This scene made Kade look not good.)

Date might be still angry with Kade. Although he liked Nam Pla Wan, when Kade asked him if Nam Pla Wan was good, he stopped eating.

In the poetry scene Date still looked unhappy with Kade no matter what she said. At the same time he didn’t like when she talked with Muen Rueng. Besides when Kosa Pan asked Kade if she would like to try. Date said “She never does it. No one knows if she can write poetry or not. But it seems like she can’t.” The way he said seemed like he insulted Kade. But then Kade was forced to do it, his eyes looked worried if she would not be able to do it. After he listening Kade’s Glon, his eyes and mind opened as you said and he could not keep his feeling anymore. He smiled with pleasure. Although he answered Khun loong about Kade’s Glon that it was “Mai Thao Rai”, he turned to see her, smiled and was teasing her by raising his eyebrows a little.

Kade knew that Glon from her study. In general, Glon that is melodically accurate in terms of prosody often used as an example in the textbook or in the classroom. But this Glon not only is correct in order of prosody with good meaning, but it’s also full of consonant and vowel rhyme that makes it more melodic. So it was not surprising that Date impressed this Glon.

One more thing no matter what Kade would intend or not, the meaning of her Glon made the moon in jaanwaad and Date’ Klong became “The Moon in the sky that is easy to find and tired of looking / so tired of that have to turn face away."

The meaning of Kade's Glon is on the page 1011 post 20209
https://www.asianfuse.net/discuzz/t...hai-pope-thanawat-bella-ranee.54464/page-1011

Then when Date saw Jaanwaad’s expression and listened to what she said, he laughed. He might understand how Jaanwaad felt.

******** Perhaps it is not only the Glon made him smile but the Glon also let him know Kade better. At least he knew she was educated. In addition to reading and writing, she also had knowledge of poetry too.

******* I’m sorry I don’t know the word “Mai Thao Rai” in English, it maybe, “it is ok, just ok, just fine” In English subtitle used “not much” I’m not sure if it is correct.

About Jaanwaad I have to guess also.

Jaanwaad was Ko Sa Lek’s daughter that let her had a chance to study. Her parents hired teachers to teach at home. Her skill was so good that she could write up Klong at once and was accepted. In the scenes we don’t know that she suspected there was someone inside Karakade’s body like Date did or not. KaraKade’s image in her eyes still was terrible. She saw that Karakade had changed but she didn’t think Karakade could write a beautiful Glon. She could see that everyone impressed her Glon including Date.

When Kade said to her “Come back to visit us again, Mae Ying Jaanwaad.” (I translate directly from Thai)
She said “(I) don't know yet” without looking at Kade. (English Subtitle uses “I still don’t know”)
From her expression, her voice and the context, I don’t think she would hesitate to visit again. She just was in the mood of being disappointed and was not ready to think of the next time.

Your question, why throughout the whole scene, Date kept looking into her eyes.

As you said Khun loong told Date he believed Kade telling the truth because he looked into her eyes. It would be the normal thing that Date knew. When people are talking, they should look at the eyes of each other. But when he was reminded by his father, it might make him more concentrate on it. However, the most important thing that made him keep looking into her eyes was he liked her. When a man likes or loves a girl, he tries to make eye contact with her to let her know he is interested in her. At the same time he could know from her eyes too if she likes him back.

Sometimes when I watch the scene “I like that Glon” I wonder Kade might not only avoid talking about the Glon with him but she also would like to keep away from his eyes as well. What would you do if you were Kade in that scene? (After looking in Date's eyes):love::love::love:
 
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MKfan132

MKfan132

sarNie Coma
Fikachu said:
Hi*waves* It's been quite silent yesterday(I say this because it's 1.13a.m here) with only @lamchieu and @TheJoker online posting loads of comments.I haven't replied to them but I will once I wake up later on.Glad you got to meet your bestie so soon:aaaaa::thumbup:I'll chat and post more tomorrow:)

Bella will have another event on 28 October at 2p.m (Bangkok timing) at Robinson Roi for AIS event.So you can look forward to more posts of her event!I'm pretty much free today except for the essay that I have to start on.So I'll be online to chat or post:)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpJvV6inw_Y/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1awer8vkbib43
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Oh okay, yea I did, had a great time. Okay hun night. It is only 2:05pm here.
 
phatman

phatman

POPE's #1 MIA LUANG
TheJoker said:
Which CDrama, please? I'm still trying to move on. Last year Q4, I was stucked with Princess Agent, the finale was horrid thus easier to wean off but BPS is just good at baiting me to be hooked, lined and sinkered into this fandom. There was an interesting fact about the Eng sub process for Princess Agent, actually.

And no worries... go on merrily to the CDrama. Don't feel guilty, puhlese....:angel10:

TJ ticks off another one on the list while whistling...one down 49 more to go (j/k):risas3:
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I recently finished The Rise of Phoenixes, now I'm watching Lost in 1949. Both of which stars Chen Kun. Haha. So I'm. . . .currently cheating on samee.
 
phatman

phatman

POPE's #1 MIA LUANG
TheJoker said:
At least I can buy the looks of Bell and Phet since she's supposedly to be expert as the seductress based on her previous profession. The trouble I have to dive into Padiwarada because of the baby face of James and the mature look of Bell. I wish the make-up artist would ease up on painting Bell's face like Chinese Opera actress. She looks way much better with lesser war paint on her face IMHO.
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Yup. Bell and Phet are a physically appealing pair. I wanna see the sizzling chemistry.
 
A

Amata

sarNie Hatchling
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Fikachu

Fikachu

Good to be back!
Amata said:
:):)

@Fikachu I’m sorry answering you question late and sorry for the long post as well. English is not my native language. I just make it sure that you would understand what I mean and I find it is easier to tell you my thought, then you could get the answers there.

You ask me why Date laughed. My answer is “I don’t know”. We don’t know his thought at all. What I can do is only to guess from the context that might be possible or impossible. Sometimes there are many things happen then when we come to a certain point and look back we would like to laugh. Date might be like that. Anyway when Date told Kade that he didn’t laugh at her. I believe him.

Before the poetry scene there was one of the scenes that I don’t like. That is the scene when Date told Kade back to her room but she said why Mae Ying Jaanwaad who was a woman also still sat there. They had argument in the presence of adults. The way she spoke to Ko Sa Lek including her voice and her manners was too aggressive. She stood up while adults still sat. She didn’t respect Khun Loong who was the host, his guests and Date (her betrothed). If this is not a lakorn and Kade were in Ayutthaya Era I don’t think she would have allowed to join in the conversation again. (I don’t understand why the script writer or the director made such scene. (This scene made Kade look not good.)

Date might be still angry with Kade. Although he liked Nam Pla Wan, when Kade asked him if Nam Pla Wan was good, he stopped eating.

In the poetry scene Date still looked unhappy with Kade no matter what she said. At the same time he didn’t like when she talked with Muen Rueng. Besides when Kosa Pan asked Kade if she would like to try. Date said “She never does it. No one knows if she can write poetry or not. But it seems like she can’t.” The way he said seemed like he insulted Kade. But then Kade was forced to do it, his eyes looked worried if she would not be able to do it. After he listening Kade’s Glon, his eyes and mind opened as you said and he could not keep his feeling anymore. He smiled with pleasure. Although he answered Khun loong about Kade’s Glon that it was “Mai Thao Rai”, he turned to see her, smiled and was teasing her by raising his eyebrows a little.

Kade knew that Glon from her study. In general, Glon that is melodically accurate in terms of prosody often used as an example in the textbook or in the classroom. But this Glon not only is correct in order of prosody with good meaning, but it’s also full of consonant and vowel rhyme that makes it more melodic. So it was not surprising that Date impressed this Glon.

One more thing no matter what Kade would intend or not, the meaning of her Glon made the moon in jaanwaad and Date’ Klong became “The Moon in the sky that is easy to find and so tired of that have to turn face away”

The meaning of Kate's Glon is on the page 1011 post 20209
https://www.asianfuse.net/discuzz/t...hai-pope-thanawat-bella-ranee.54464/page-1011

Then when Date saw Jaanwaad’s expression and listened to what she said, he laughed. He might understand how Jaanwaad felt.

******** Perhaps it is not only the Glon made him smile but the Glon also let him know Kade better. At least he knew she was educated. In addition to reading and writing, she also had knowledge of poetry too.

******* I’m sorry I don’t know the word “Mai Thao Rai” in English, it maybe, “it is ok, just ok, just fine” In English subtitle used “not much” I’m not sure if it is correct.

About Jaanwaad I have to guess also.

Jaanwaad was Ko Sa Lek’s daughter that let her had a chance to study. Her parents hired teachers to teach at home. Her skill was so good that she could write up Klong at once and was accepted. In the scenes we don’t know that she suspected there was someone inside Karakade’s body like Date did or not. KaraKade’s image in her eyes still was terrible. She saw that Karakade had changed but she didn’t think Karakade could write a beautiful Glon. She could see that everyone impressed her Glon including Date.

When Kade said to her “Come back to visit us again, Mae Ying Jaanwaad.” (I translate directly from Thai)
She said “(I) haven’t known yet” without looking at Kade. (English Subtitle uses “I still don’t know”)
From her expression, her voice and the context, I don’t think she would hesitate to visit again. She just was in the mood of being disappointed and was not ready to think of the next time.

Your question, why throughout the whole scene, Date kept looking into her eyes.

As you said Khun loong told Date he believed Kade telling the truth because he looked into her eyes. It would be the normal thing that Date knew. When people are talking, they should look at the eyes of each other. But when he was reminded by his father, it might make him more concentrate on it. However, the most important thing that made him keep looking into her eyes was he liked her. When a man like or love a girl, he try to make eye contact with her to let her know he is interested in her. At the same time he could know from her eyes too if she likes him back.

Sometimes when I watch the scene “I like that Glon” I wonder Kade might not only avoid talking about the Glon with him but she also would like to keep away from his eyes as well. What would you do if you were Kade in that scene? (After looking in Date's eyes):love::love::love:
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts:icon12:For someone does not speak English as native language, you do a great job explaining to us in detail:thumbup::worship2:ขอบคุณมาก:icon12:

"What would you do if you were Kade in that scene? (After looking in Date's eyes)"
I would...เป็นลม (this means faint, right?)because his stare is too intense
:fighting3::pancarta:

"Before the poetry scene there was one of the scenes that I don’t like. That is the scene when Date told Kade back to her room but she said why Mae Ying Jaanwaad who was a woman also still sat there. They had argument in the presence of adults. The way she spoke to Ko Sa Lek including her voice and her manners was too aggressive. She stood up while adults still sat. She didn’t respect Khun Loong who was the host, his guests and Date (her betrothed). If this is not a lakorn and Kade were in Ayutthaya Era I don’t think she would have allowed to join in the conversation again. (I don’t understand why the script writer or the director made such scene. (This scene made Kade look not good.)"​
I did not think about this but when you said this, I agree. Now that I think about it, it seems weird how everyone can just return to normal after what happened. Maybe this may be normal for some people now, but in that era, such a thing won't be accepted. I think someone who do that would be punished afterwards if it was real life.​
​
"Kade knew that Glon from her study. In general, Glon that is melodically accurate in terms of prosody often used as an example in the textbook or in the classroom. But this Glon not only is correct in order of prosody with good meaning, but it’s also full of consonant and vowel rhyme that makes it more melodic. So it was not surprising that Date impressed this Glon."​
WOW!:eek:In other words, this is the PERFECT Glon:thumbup:No wonder he was impressed!:love:​
​
"One more thing no matter what Kade would intend or not, the meaning of her Glon made the moon in jaanwaad and Date’ Klong became “The Moon in the sky that is easy to find and so tired of that have to turn face away”​
​
Then when Date saw Jaanwaad’s expression and listened to what she said, he laughed. He might understand how Jaanwaad felt.​
​
******** Perhaps it is not only the Glon made him smile but the Glon also let him know Kade better. At least he knew she was educated. In addition to reading and writing, she also had knowledge of poetry too."​
I didn't think about him laughing because he may understand how Jaanwaad felt. Now that you said this, I feel that that is possible too:thumbup:Since the lakorn isn't detailed like the novel, we have to guess some things like you said.​
​
"When Kade said to her “Come back to visit us again, Mae Ying Jaanwaad.” (I translate directly from Thai)​
She said “(I) haven’t known yet” without looking at Kade. (English Subtitle uses “I still don’t know”)​
From her expression, her voice and the context, I don’t think she would hesitate to visit again. She just was in the mood of being disappointed and was not ready to think of the next time."​
Ahh...what you said actually makes more sense. She was disappointed that Kade actually impressed everyone with her Glon even though she was better educated. Thus, when Kade's words and actions didn't match Jaanwaad's expectations, she became disappointed.​

"As you said Khun loong told Date he believed Kade telling the truth because he looked into her eyes. It would be the normal thing that Date knew. When people are talking, they should look at the eyes of each other. But when he was reminded by his father, it might make him more concentrate on it. However, the most important thing that made him keep looking into her eyes was he liked her. When a man like or love a girl, he try to make eye contact with her to let her know he is interested in her. At the same time he could know from her eyes too if she likes him back."
Yes, you're right. Even after she looked like she was going to confess, he kept looking into her eyes. He didn't have to since she was about to tell the truth. The longer than needed stare means that that stare meant something else already.It meant that he was trying to hint at her that he likes her and was trying to get clues whether she liked him too:)
 
Fikachu

Fikachu

Good to be back!
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