Have you ever notice that...

champthong

sarNie Hatchling
For those of you who travelled to different parts of the world and see how it is like, have you ever notice that even though Laos P.D.R is labelled as one of the "poorest country" (which I STRONGLY DISAGREED, because Laos is NOT poor, rather I think it is poorly managed, but improving), but you don't see begger(s) or "khon call taan."

When I travelled to Chicago, IL; San Francisco and Los Angeles, CA; New York; I see homeless people and beggers everywhere on the street, thus US is known as "Pathet Salee" where government provides assistant, etc.

Cambodia lots of beggers
China lots of beggers
Thailand lots of beggers
India lots of beggers
just to name a few

I feel hopeless and sad to see countries having beggers...when you see them please kindly donate few dollars to them.

I hope Laos continues to maintain no beggers...

We were debating this issues and I am curious to see what your thoughts are. I apologize if I have offended any one of you, because of my poor choice of word.
 

Alhambra1

sarNie Juvenile
Agreed with U. Take America for example, we are supposed to be one of the riches nation but yet there are people starving to death right and countless baggers and hundreds of thousands of homeless people. And here we are trying to "reconstruct" other nation, ironic wouldn't you say?
 

noungning

Heartless
i agree, i didn't see any beggars in laos. though, i did see a crazy person just like in the thai movies! i was shocked because i didn't think the whole make up and ripped clothes thing was as real as it can get lol...off topic sorry haha. additionally, i don't think laos is poor like the OP posted, but people would rather better themselves, rather than better the nation, from what i saw.

the thing with the united states, i think several chooses to be beggars rather than get a real job, their choice.

as for thailand, i think the situation is a bit different, no opportunities given to those with disabilities, nevermind disability, average people if unwilling to lick/kiss ass they will get no opportunity to move up the ladder. which is very sad.
 

anan

sarNie Adult
Hi,
i think it would be a mistake to say that "you don't see beggar(s)" in laos.
It is relative to where you stay & live. Because you will see more if you stay longer.... a short trip to a place cannot give you a full vision of what seems being true (or not.).

Making a comparison between countries is nice... but it would even be better if you compare something comparable... and preferably in term of size, population...

And finally, if u don't see, it doesn't mean that it does not exist. ^o^.
 

champthong

sarNie Hatchling
Hi,
i think it would be a mistake to say that "you don't see beggar(s)" in laos.
It is relative to where you stay & live. Because you will see more if you stay longer.... a short trip to a place cannot give you a full vision of what seems being true (or not.).

Making a comparison between countries is nice... but it would even be better if you compare something comparable... and preferably in term of size, population...

And finally, if u don't see, it doesn't mean that it does not exist. ^o^.
Why have you seen beggers in Laos? How long do people have to stay in order to get the full effect version?

Anything can be compare to anything, it doesn't matter regarding the size, the population, etc as long as you have all revelant information to do comparison. Otherwise, there will not be any comparison or any statiscal analysis or approach. For example: GDP, GNP, PPP, etc comparison between different countries, even though they are not comparable in size, population, etc. The results are understandable and relevant.

Well, in general if you are going to use the stastical analysis approach, the probability would be what similar in percentage wise no matter how large the population or size, etc. Because in the analysis you would have to account for all those factors. Beside, if developed countries are used as a base to do your analysis, keeping in mind that these countries already have more advantages as well, thus the result still with beggers.

If I don't see it, it doesn't exist! Where must they be? haha hint hint the term "beggers" haha
 

anan

sarNie Adult
First of all, I respect your vision of things Champ, ^_^,
well, how long ? i cannot tell, but it is up to your curiosity, mind and desire to know.
But personally, i can answer you that "yes" i have seen beggars.
If you take ur lunch or dinner along mekong river, sometimes you can see them.
A picture that comes to my mind right now is: an old blind man guided by his little boy, and others little boys probably around 10 years old who came to ask for money or foods....

The hard truth to admit sometimes is that: they are unwanted by the owners of little shops or restaurants, they want to keep their customers and so try to avoid beggars to come and disturb.

You talked about Thailand previously, well, i hope u know too that there are real real beggars and faked beggars who are probably exploited by some kind of "boss". for whatsovever the reason, they beg becos they have probably no choice....

Well, i know that u will reply me with stats stuff... u r absolutely right too, there r so many factors that need to be taken into account... but u have the right to trust stats and numbers etc... but so far, u will also need relevant information to do that.

Personally, i dont like comparing human factors. becos we are not just a simple number, and i also can lie about my age, my job and hence u can never have relevant info...

Finally, well well... "beggers" or "beggars" ? please check your dictionary naa ? :rolleyes:
If i type it wrong, please correct me ;) u can check on the webster online dictionary if u want... ;)

G'nite ^_^


Why have you seen beggers in Laos? How long do people have to stay in order to get the full effect version?

Anything can be compare to anything, it doesn't matter regarding the size, the population, etc as long as you have all revelant information to do comparison. Otherwise, there will not be any comparison or any statiscal analysis or approach. For example: GDP, GNP, PPP, etc comparison between different countries, even though they are not comparable in size, population, etc. The results are understandable and relevant.

Well, in general if you are going to use the stastical analysis approach, the probability would be what similar in percentage wise no matter how large the population or size, etc. Because in the analysis you would have to account for all those factors. Beside, if developed countries are used as a base to do your analysis, keeping in mind that these countries already have more advantages as well, thus the result still with beggers.

If I don't see it, it doesn't exist! Where must they be? haha hint hint the term "beggers" haha
 

champthong

sarNie Hatchling
Finally, well well... "beggers" or "beggars" ? please check your dictionary naa ? :rolleyes:
If i type it wrong, please correct me ;) u can check on the webster online dictionary if u want... ;)
When I said hint hint the term "beggers" I was not intended to correct your grammar or your spelling, instead I was implying to something else. I will leave it for you to interpret however you would like. However, I can assure you that I wasn't either thinking or intending to correct you on your english language. I, myself is not the world greatest speller [this is not english class].

Regarding the English dictionary, there are different variation of English language in term of wording and spelling (i.e. British English, American English, etc) and I can assure you that! Thus, there are different way of spelling things and same word can mean different things depend on the English language that were used.

If Thailand or India have beggers, its doesn't mean that they are doing bad or a bad country. I just listed those countries above because I had encountered beggers in these countries. I could name more countries, but I think you get the point. All countries has its own internal problem and we all know it either they admit or not. I like I said, this topic of discussion is to see what your thought are regarding beggers in Laos; and why so-called "poor country" such as Laos we don't see beggers in comparing to other rich or developing or developed nations. Don't give me wrong, in the future beggers may somehow come into the picture, but I cannot predict the future. I guess only time will tell.

I am not intended to insult any countries and I think everyone wants to solve/deminish this kind of problems in their country. However, country needs to accept problems and find alternatives to overcome that will benefit its people.

And if I DON'T SEE beggers, then I don't see beggers. I can't say that I see beggers, when I didn't see it!


Word of Advice: constructive criticism is the only way to succeed!
Don't get it wrong, I like people providing me with constructive criticism...please do criticize :)
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
wow, this is a great topic. i've personally been fascinated with this thought myself throughout my travels. hmm...where do i start?

after bein' in all those other countries, u've mentioned, i remember that it was virtually impossible to avoid "beggars" or street children/mothers/families. however, when i arrived in Laos, i was originally in Luang Prabang n i was like whoah, no one's coming up to me. n my friend mentions, "oh it's the royal city, that's prolly why." so we were quite naive bein' that that was our first time in Laos. then during my later visits, i've had more of a chance to explore different regions from north to south of Laos, and yet still found no beggars at all. it completely shocked me. n i almost came to the conclusion that Laos is NOT poor relative to many other nations.

so i came to explore this thought further and i was determined to find a reasonable extrapolation of all this. during my time there, i've also seeked for agencies and NGO's and orphanages to do work there as i enjoy the beauty of Laos so much more, being that it's so peaceful, tiny, and calm and less industrialized (but of course not so much in Vientiane), but yet, it was so hard for me to come across, as oppose to say India or China or Cambodia, i can stop by any agency or orphanage n volunteer my efforts immediately, cuz the need was there.

in my effort to better understand this, i've asked ppl in Laos, why are there no beggars? and they told me to go live with them and stay at their house and i will understand. aside from government efforts to equalize everyone's status (yeah yeah u know typical propaganda, but it seems to show). anyhow, so i did. and in one house, there would be like 7 boys and girls in addition to their own biological children. these kids were said to not have much, sometimes their parents can't feed them. so they would come and stay out in the city, get taken in, but in exchange for the kindness, those kids would help out around the house and apply their labor. no matter how poor that entire household was, the kids are still taken in and treated like extended family and everyone takes care of each other and contribute to the household. they eat what they have and scrounge up and they share everything. the social structure was amazing. and then secondly, when u go to the temples, u'll find that all the "dek wat" and little monks are primarily orphans or kids from the country side looking for opportunity in the big city. the temple was basically a refuge for orphans and what-would-be beggars. as for many of the elders, someone was bound to care for them no matter what.

so there was a sense of "civil society" that seems to fade in largely industrialized countries like China, India, and even Thailand. Thailand itself use to have such a civil society, but it modernized at such a pace that eventually, their social structure of civil society couldn't catch up to it. for all we know, Laos may just be there soon, looking at how it's advancing in its industrialization and modernization process, as foreign investments in its natural resources are increasing by the day.

another thing i also notice is that Laos is waaaay fuuuuulll of hidden treasures, being it's natural resources. so there's always plenty of food. no matter how poor u are, u can still manage to get around with a small garden or two, or go around picking fruits that grow out of nowhere. or you can always drop by someone's house, as in a neighbor's or a friend's house, and still get fed. the open hospitality, another reason, why i'm in love with the country.

but as u can see, in my verbose ways, i've pointed out one major reason that may be the defining factor in the lack of visible "beggars" aside from the fact that the gov't made be suppressing those few beggars as well, due to purposes of national image. i know my thoughts are scattered and unorganized, but i'm currently lazy right now, and yet feels the urgency to respond. :lol:

lastly, i was told of a Laotian proverb that, "Vietnamese ppl die because their stingy n frugal, but Laotians die due to pride," i think it goes something like, "Viet dai yon pra yut, Lao dai yon kriet". so this idea that no matter how poor Laotians are, they refuse to make it visible to others, so they would rather die than beg. well, i wonder if that has any truths.

but like anan says, yes there are ppl who do lack access to certain resources. and yes, oppressions cannot be ranked, so there should not be such thing as an oppression olympics. but nonetheless in my own personal opinion and based on my personal travel experience, i feel that Laotians are a lot more abundant in resources and are much better off than so many ppl in so many other countries. i don't think they're poor at all. they're simple ppl living simple lives, who needs to eventually realize the richness sitting right under their nose.

but things may change...sadly enuf. -_-

Agreed with U. Take America for example, we are supposed to be one of the riches nation but yet there are people starving to death right and countless baggers and hundreds of thousands of homeless people. And here we are trying to "reconstruct" other nation, ironic wouldn't you say?
ditto. definitely concur! like tupac puts it, "we've got money for wars, but none for the po", so much for our democratic ways, no? ^_^ the illusions of choice...
 

anan

sarNie Adult
Thank u for your "Word of Advice" Champ, ^_^
Personally, i dont think that i can make constructive criticisms in a forum,
i see it more as a tool to share ideas and visions of things... and everyone is free to say whatever they want right ?...
[becos we are not in a dissertation writing class stuff too]

u r right about dictionary with different little variations in spelling... between british (like organise) while in US is organize etc...

"poor country" such as Laos we don't see beggers
,
It's fine for me if u seem being very empiric, i said last time that it could be a "mistake", and also "relative" to where u are, for how long and in what kind of circumstances.....

If ppl. say that << we dont see beggars in laos.>>, it seems (for me personally) like an affirmation and also a generalisation of things.

I had a chance to visit US many times like LA, San Fran, Kansas, and Houston (and also other countries).
Let's say (and imagine) now that i have never seen beggars in these cities.
Can i say from so far that I don't see any beggars in the USA ?? :huh:

And if I DON'T SEE beggers, then I don't see beggers. I can't say that I see beggers, when I didn't see it!
Now i think u get my point... as Antoine de Saint-Exupery said: "what is essential is sometimes invisible to the eye."
And of course, i respect the freedom of speech (and hopefully), u have the right to say whatever u want, as long as u dont see it, or see it. ;)
 

KEdoubleNY

sarNie Adult
I stayed in Laos for 6months and yes I saw some beggars there. Not a whole lot tho and they only beg for food or money when the rice are harvest. Most of these beggars are either lazy to do their rice fields or they don't have any rice fields at all.
 

chonny

sarNie Egg
Went there every single year sometime I stayed there 1-2 years and I don't see any beggars in Laos P.D.R. I was expecting to see beggars when I get off the airplane like in India, China, Thailand, Cambodia. So, I had all these changes ready to hand out to them, instead I saw no beggars. I thought wow this is weird a country with no beggars how can that be possible. Maybe I need to go into the city more...I explored the entire country, still did not see any beggars. Everyone was so surprise and shock!

WOW! India ...landed get our luggages then headed to our hotel...kids followed us and some of the white people were so scared that they dragged their luggages and start running into the hotel. After dinner we went to the village to see the Indian culture and dance...it was fun and funny as well haha...we got off the so called bus, then we started walking toward the village...then appear two beggars...then I thought only two I will give them so money, then mob of them just appear from nowhere...then everyone except me starts running like the bull is chasing after lol Gosh funny time...one of the football player ran into a tent haha...so hilarious...

Thailand around the Siam Square and the MBK area...man, I feel so bad seeing them sitting on the bridge like that...the image just kills/haunt me even today...

Vietnam and Cambodia ...fun time and some part funny and some part sad...

USA don't even wanna start...

I guess they got to do what they have to do to survive.


Laos P.D.R is so peaceful and so friendly. Really different from other countries...no wonder all the tourists are pouring into Laos now-a-day...I hope it continues like this...
 

chonny

sarNie Egg
I had a chance to visit US many times like LA, San Fran, Kansas, and Houston (and also other countries).
Let's say (and imagine) now that i have never seen beggars in these cities.
Can i say from so far that I don't see any beggars in the USA ?? :huh:
That would be too funny if you visited these places and you don't see beggars haha... I went there and I saw beggars haha...maybe I need to get my eyes check or something haha :ph34r:
 

vonni

sarNie Egg
i've always disputed how laos is poor, the fact is we're poor by "western" standards, laotians don't make as much money compared to other nations due to the currency rate but laos is going along fine. laotian people are very content and happy with their lives, even the people in the country live in happiness because their lives are so simple and not so heavily driven by money. money is the root of all evil. lao people don't need huge ass televisions and real fast cars or fancy food, they only need to get by and they're very happy with that kind of lifestyle.

i don't know why people now rate countries by their large bank accounts, military power and such when it's the people and the culture of the country that matters more.
 

noungning

Heartless
lao people don't need huge ass televisions and real fast cars or fancy food, they only need to get by and they're very happy with that kind of lifestyle.
good point, but i think it's incorrect to say all the people in laos are in such harmony and almost reaching nirvana.

in every society/country, there are the people that strive for money, power and materialistic objects, and then there are people who are satisfied with whatever they have.

in fact, i know that many people in laos are just like the neighbors that needs to follow the "jones" --- needing to buy things and have things to compete with others all the time.

however, there are the poors that are unable to do so, and then there are those that lives in mansions and drives mercedez down the unpaved roads.

it's the same everywhere.
 

anan

sarNie Adult
and then there are those that lives in mansions and drives mercedez down the unpaved roads.
The decadence of these "so called rich" ppl. makes me sick blind... from their Mercedes S[uper] L[ayer] K[lass] to the wedding style at the biggest place...

Who said that laos was poor ? no no no, it's not.... it's RICH ! or maybe i should say... Reserved rich and high-so[ciety]. seu seu...

- so rich that lots of us dont see that much beggars,

- so rich that thousands of students of the NUOL who just graduated find no jobs and worry a lot about their futures...

- so rich that some young girls have to prostitute in order to earn "easy money".

- so rich that in addition, Laos receive every year lots of donations of countries around the world and grants from ADB.


What a peaceful land locked country that i love... with full of decadences ....
 

chi chi

sarNie Juvenile
I've never visited, but hoopefully I will someday to see my birthplace. Just I think men back there are plain lazy and some just take advantage of their wives..from people who visited the states the woman seems to always obey and serve the husband, which I totally despise a lao man for that. Plus from most lao men all they do is drink and gamble! Some just don't strive themselves to do better. My opinion.
 

chonny

sarNie Egg
The decadence of these "so called rich" ppl. makes me sick blind... from their Mercedes S[uper] L[ayer] K[lass] to the wedding style at the biggest place...Who said that laos was poor ? no no no, it's not.... it's RICH ! or maybe i should say... Reserved rich and high-so[ciety]. seu seu...- so rich that lots of us dont see that much beggars,
- so rich that thousands of students of the NUOL who just graduated find no jobs and worry a lot about their futures...
- so rich that some young girls have to prostitute in order to earn "easy money".
- so rich that in addition, Laos receive every year lots of donations of countries around the world and grants from ADB.
What a peaceful land locked country that i love... with full of decadences ....
Are you being sarcasm? I think you are!

Like Champ stated, Laos is NOT a POOR country, it is poorly managed!

You don't think the people in the developed world or your so-called "RICH nations" that when students who graduated from universities or well-known universities can find a job? Yea, everyone who graduated find a job except for country of Laos haha. Secondly, if you want to speak in term of "easy money" and prostitution look at Thailand the center hub of Asian prostititution :r-scene-pop-corn: . Oh what's the capital of Thailand again? haha. If Thailand is not a comparable country to you, look at U.S. Look at Amerstadam, France, Mexico, China,etc haha. And these countries have prostitution long before and still have prostitution today. Oh wait thats right these countries don't have prostitutions. Oops! my bad! They are rich and perfect nations! Thirdly, if countries are dumb (wait I should say generous) enough to donate and gave them grants why not take. Afterall, it doesn't have to be pay off. Reality check, the developed or undeveloped nations received assistance from other nations as well; otherwise there will be no such associations. To better the world is to join hand and help!

Overall, some people can't grasped the point or see that Laos is better than other countries, even though it is rated by the "Western" standard as a poor country {don't feel like repeating what other stated already}.
 

chonny

sarNie Egg
visited the states the woman seems to always obey and serve the husband, which I totally despise a lao man for that.
Women obeying or being loyal to their husband is common tradition in Asian Society especially in Lao, Thai, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Surprisely, decades ago Caucasians women also obey and being loyal to their husband. Now-a-day, some caucasian women still do and other don't follow the tradition anymore.

So, I guess in Asian society it is a tradition and I don't feel like typing why Asian women obey and being loyal to their husband. I am pretty sure while you are growing up hopefully your parents told you.

Plus from most lao men all they do is drink and gamble!
In general most men all they do is drink and gamble not just Lao men. Other men from other ethnic groups are worse than Lao men haha.
 

anan

sarNie Adult
Are you being sarcasm? I think you are!

Like Champ stated, Laos is NOT a POOR country, it is poorly managed!

You don't think the people in the developed world or your so-called "RICH nations" that when students who graduated from universities or well-known universities can find a job? Yea, everyone who graduated find a job except for country of Laos haha. Secondly, if you want to speak in term of "easy money" and prostitution look at Thailand the center hub of Asian prostititution :r-scene-pop-corn: . Oh what's the capital of Thailand again? haha. If Thailand is not a comparable country to you, look at U.S. Look at Amerstadam, France, Mexico, China,etc haha. And these countries have prostitution long before and still have prostitution today. Oh wait thats right these countries don't have prostitutions. Oops! my bad! They are rich and perfect nations! Thirdly, if countries are dumb (wait I should say generous) enough to donate and gave them grants why not take. Afterall, it doesn't have to be pay off. Reality check, the developed or undeveloped nations received assistance from other nations as well; otherwise there will be no such associations. To better the world is to join hand and help!

Overall, some people can't grasped the point or see that Laos is better than other countries, even though it is rated by the "Western" standard as a poor country {don't feel like repeating what other stated already}.
Sarcastic me ? yeah sure, sometimes i am :drool: ... and i feel sorry if what i said seems politically incorrect in to ur eyes...

First of all, i never said or denied what Champ said... that [Laos] is poorly managed....

Oh my dear... Where did i write about rich "nations" huh :huh: ?? i never mentioned that word, i think u misunderstand me when i make an allusion to "high so"... it doesnt mean at all rich nations, not in my previous context... Don't mix up things together plz... lol

That's funny the way u r trying to turn what i said against myself... lol... but that's okie...
Well, as u said.. it was a sarcastic view, yeah, my sarcasms, and never meant to generalise things or take it as too seriously for ppl who read it...

Now let me ask you something Chonny...

1) Do u have friends at the NUOL ?? friends who just finished their study and dare to tell u that they worry about finding no job ? or asking ur help/advices to build their first CV and cover letter without that much experiences ? Who asking u about interview techniques because they want to have scholarship to study abroad for a better future ?

2) Have you been to Savannakhet and the situations about human traffic, the young girls who went to Thailand with the hope of a better future... and later one come back with AIDS and wait their last hours of living ?? Or just even had a chance to meet or talk with ppl. who work for Medecin Sans Frontiere in Savannakhet ??

3) Have you been involved or just simply have discussions with ppl. who work for NGOs in Laos ? they did a wonderful job for laos.
I personally had a chance to meet a consultant who wrote up a project to get an EU fund to help Laos...and before i left Laos, he was hired by the World Bank, and his project a success, isn't it wonderful for Laos ??

Finally, thanks for being ironic... Lol... I love when ppl. compare Laos with USA, France, Amsterdam, China, Mexico, Thailand in term of prostitution lol...

I am not against prostitution at all, Lol... but more in human condition...
I am not against high-so ppl. but their decadence when it comes especially to the gov. ppl. who should first contribute to the welfare of its ppl. rather than spending $$$$ in their selfish desire of luxuries things and so on....

Laos is not poor, it is rich, and even poor managed it's still rich with its decadence.... ^_^
 

champthong

sarNie Hatchling
haha the topic of discussion went from have you ever notice any beggars in Laos...
to Lao men are lazy (gamblers & drinkers).... to prostitution ...to rich ppl/high-so... to what is the capital of Thailand?... to WorldBank... to AIDS ...to education... to scarcasm comments... to who know what else...but it is all cool...I will check back later to see where this topic will end up as :dude:

Prostitution is all cool, women (men) gets satisfied and make a living (killing two birds with one stone) haha. I know that in Amsterdam women (men) who prostitute gets health benefits, etc.

Oh don't get me started on World Bank haha...I'll just leave it at that...

Chonny: The capital of Thailand is Bang-Cock haha haha :r-scene-pop-corn:
 
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