Illegal Immigrants in the US

[pii-nky]

I'm just curious from your point of view about the protest that happened today in Washington DC && cities near you. Do you think illegal immigrants should be sent back to where they came from, or keep them here? Not just refering to the Mexicans, including the Asians and many others.

I was speechless when i saw about tiny little middle school kids going on the march, i mean look at me-- i'm in school instead, while the little ones are out there!! =/ i feel helpess! :shock: --LOL

 

[noungning]

honestly, i think that if they deserve to live here, then they should remain here. there are many illegal people that does nothing but good to better their lives and others... so i definitely think they should live here, compared to those that live here legally but endlessly causes neverending problems/crimes.

but if they have been up to nothing but making the place they reside in demolish, they should be deported. especially those that cannot reflect upon where they came from, gets lost in the lime-light and considers themselves beyond others because they discovered the short cut to making money. becoming associated with gangs, dealing drugs, gambling, threatening others, robbing, and taking other people's lives away for no apparent reasonable explanation, which they should even be captured for life rather than evicted from the country. these should be paid much more attention to compared to those that just drive down the street and "seem" like they are an illegal immigrant.

why do political/governmental figures not address major situtations like those rather than causing much more terrorism and hatred in this country? they just don't seem to like peace in this country, as if a war overseas is not enough. now they've triggered a war within the country with the most illegal immigrants residing in.

can you possibly imagine reliving the black vs. white era, but now it's legal immigrants/citizens/political/governmental vs illegal immigrants? it's just so immense, because immigrants vary amongst so many ethnicities.

okay, i think i've just put more than just 2 cents in lol... sorry.

 

[darvil]

Now I don't think the plan is to send back all the illegals back to mexico/others.

It should be obvious that we just CANNOT do something like that even if we wanted to.

The right thing should be not to overreact but at the same time have some sort of penalty (of which its hard to say what).

I also think its not very smart to just let "everyone" come in the US. There should be some sort of control over the border. What they need really do is to target the businesses who hires these illegals. Have harsh punishment so that it'll be an incentive against hiring illegals.

I don't have anything against illegals but I've always felt that it is very unfair for the Mexicans to just cross the border into the US ahead of everyone. There is a long line of people who also want entry into the US. And by that I mean people from Europe (the poor eastern block) and poorer asian nations like the ones in SE Asia.

I think the border can be controlled.. Not by building a wall or such but rather have the "political" desire to do so.

Congress just really pisses me off sometimes. Its either a YES or a NO.. there's no middle ground at all. For something like this you need to go middle ground.

 

[babylakorn]

I don't know much about what is in the news about the illegal immagrants.
But I do know that this country was founded by the immagrantions. So I don't think they should but sent back to Mexico. If theycan get them self in the states then I think they should be able to stay. Come on think about how hard it is to get to America and then be sent back I don't think that is right. People should be allow to stay but the law do need to be stricter. If they are not doing anything wrong like hurting someone then is their right to stay here and better their life/situation instead of taking advantage of the US aids or help. Thats my 2cents.

 

[iluvnumandoil]

i was watching the news and i saw a bunch of them holding the mexico flag...but i think that they should hold the american flag, do as an american..show them what this country is..just my opinion :sweat:

 

[AznGyrl4o1]

The thing with Mexico and stuff..
[I'm not racist or anything, I just tell it like it is..]
They wave their flag around like they're country is the best. [I see it at school all the time.] If that's so, then why don't they just go back if they're country is so great?
I know loyalty and I know ignorance. Those two should never be intertwined.
I'm not complaining if people come here and they come here to work.
It just sucks when they're coming illegally and taking advantage of welfare situations and what not.
Where does that leave other people who really need it?
It's just making poor people poorer.

America is the land of oppurtunity, duh, I know.
But if you come here and you manipulate what Freedom is, that's just wrong.
But if you come here and you try your best at life here, I say, be my guest. We need more smart people in the U.S anyways.

I don't wanna see people getting kicked out,
But I don't wanna see people coming in and acting like they're the best.
It's called a nation for a reason. We live as ONE.

 

[anti-hmong]

send all illegal immigrants back whether they're asian, hispanic, black or whatever...you want to come into the country...then come in legally...illegal immigrants are just screwing things over for the rest of the population...such as job opportunities...they're willing to work for lower wages and all...which in my opinion is pathetic...yeah i get that they want to better their lives and blah blah blah but at the same time i have no sympathy whatsoever for them...get in line like the rest of the immigrants...nothing worthy in life is easy...so suck it up and wait your turn...what makes them think that they can just waltz into the country and live like the rest?...either send them all back or treat them the same way that they were treated in their country

 

[KawaiiTennyo]

they deserve to live here look at the stuff they went through.. although that doesnt mean come here and turn this place to little teijuana or mexico all ghetto and stuff.. because that's how it's turning out like over here in some part of cali.. its sucks coming in legal hahah it's kinda hard.. shit im legal and it's taking me forever to get my citizenship that I already HAVE~~

 

[noiki]

the fact of the matter is a lot of the US used to be Mexico, so to say that it's our land isn't correct because there was a war to get this piece of land and unfortunate for them, they lost. so supposed that mexico didn't lose the war and california and a lot of other pieces of land as it is now was still mexico, how much would that change?

not to mention that yeah people work for low wages, but if they don't do it will you? are you willing to clean the bathrooms and pick up the trash after people who don't know any better than to throw it in a trashcan? america was built on the backs of immigrants, regardless of what their race was or their legal status in society.

to me, it's the word "illegal" that gets to most people because it implicates a bad feeling.

 

[jeanie]

My problem is that so-called "illegal" immigrants don't pay taxes. Do you know how much taxpayers' money goes toward services that ends up paying for these illegal people? Its not fair. Also the law and protocols for gaining entry into the US is there for a reason. You can't break the law and then expect special treatment. Its a tricky subject though.

One thing I think there should be is stricter border control. How easy would it be for terrorists to get into the US through the Mexican/US border? I'm thinking if normal everyday people do it with no problem, its gotta be a piece of cake for terrorists who plan all that stuff out.

 

[dfemc]

wows...man oh man...woman oh woman....people oh peoples.

hmm...wonder who determines who belongs here more than others? and what is an "american"? :mellow:

why is crossing borders to make living and survive an illegal act? first off, we have fucked up foreign policy that screws over the economic situation in so many countries. ever thought about the so-called "third world countries" and what makes them "third world"? notice a pattern? many of those countries have been colonized for years n centuries.

most of the ppl in here, for the most part, i would have to presume to be southeast asians if not east asians or south asians. and if u are southeast asian, u came here as "refugee" fleeing a harsh "political, economic, social" condition from the motherland due to a policy imposed by some first world nation involved. as for those who came here to flee the VietNam War, it was America that imposed those policies to support the French.

As for Mexico, again, look at the shoes, clothes, and household items you use. If it's not made in China, you'll most likely find 1 out of every 5 item u own made my Mexican labor. Why is that? Could it be the economic policies likie NAFTA that we have pushing and shoving ppl off their lands and livelihood? :angry:

Remember, there's always a push and pull factor, there's a reason to everything, things don't just happen. Don't take personal biases and reason based on hate. Know your own history and how u and ur family came to be before u start judging what's out there. At least question what ur told...before taking it in as a fact.

many of the so-called "illegal" immigrants are primarily economic refugees. and there's nothing illegal about being a refugee. it's a basic human right to be able to feed urself, ur family, and survive. darwinism should teach us a few things about our way of being and our struggles rather be manipulated to justify things like racism and eugenics. :angry:

borders in and of itself is an interesting concept to contemplate on. who defines it? does it physically exist? why must we have it? though, we're terrotorial creatures, it doesn't serve to justify the hate, killings, wars, and racist policies we impose on everyone just because we're "Americans". -_-

just because 70% or so of the illegal immigrants here are Mexicans or from Latin America. let's not forget there's plenty of illegal immigrants from Canada and Europe and Russia. The funny thing is when u look at them, u'd think they're "Americans" automattically just because of our perception of "what an 'american' looks like"...very sad. i've had many friends who are blond and blue eyes but just as illegal, but would never be treated as one. it really comes to show that what or who is legal or not is based on "perception" than a constant reality. whatever that is... <_<

 

[natty]

ok let me delete my original post.. it was too sarcastic on something sensitive..


anyways.. i think that if they were to want to stay here legally and be allowed to then they need to pay taxes like the rest of us and also they need to learn how to speak english.. really.. they do need to learn how to speak english.. i mean i understand that mexicans are really the majority but we are in america.. and america's language is ENGLISH... not spanish.. as for florida wanting to adopt spanish as first language with english as second languare is pure dumb... no matter what happen in the past or whose country this really is (cus if you want to dig into the past/history, this country really didnt belong to mexico either), we're living in the present.. and in the present last i check, this is America that speaks English.. our flag is red white and blue, not red green and white...

 

[dfemc]

whoah...well, u've got some interesting points there natty... were u the type that forced ur parents to learn english too?

i think i know what u mean. that in order for them to survive they'll need to learn english, well at least that's what i hope u mean. because english is actually not the official language in this country. and if anything, in most countries, ppl speak at least one other language in addition to their "official" language in the country.

so i don't see what's wrong with adopting spanish. and ur right, this country didn't belong to mexico to begin with nor does it belong to anyone. but that point was prolly brought up to show that these ppl (majority mexicans and south americans) have been here for quite sometime, so to displace them is not gonna be an easy task nor should it be a task at all.

and just wondering, where do u go off on the high horse believing that illegal immigrants do not pay taxes? u don't think they eat, sleep, or wear clothes. what do u pay if not taxes when u purchase items in the stores. unless ur from oregon of course. in addition to that, though undocumented immigrants do not have social security numbers, they can get a TAX PAYER IDENTIFICATION number that allows them to pay taxes at the end of the year. beyond that, working the cheap wages is enough to weigh out the dayam taxes that documented ppl or citizens with decent minimum wage end up paying on the whole. so hopefully u can keep that in mind too, unless ur too priviledged to realize as so.

so please do not misjudge...and out of curiousity where are u from natty? are u a white american or did ur parents have roots elsewhere too? please do not be offended by my question, but i think it may simply help those of us to better understand where ur coming from with ur perspective...that's all.

immigrants, documented or undocumented, put in a lot so that u can live the way u live everyday; i just hope u'll be mindful of that, if u can't appreciate it for what it is. -_-

but it's a good thing that there's dialogue and that u express what u think and feel honestly instead of sugar-coating it, because that's what this country is all about.

 

[natty]

um no dfemc i didnt force my parents to learn english because both of them came to this country as college students....graduated then went back to thailand... but yeah, if you choose to live in a certain country, you should at least try to learn their language and not demand that country to learn yours..


the high horse that i'm on.. when i said taxes.. i'm talking about wages, income taxes.. i'm not talking about taxes as in buying food clothes and what not, cus if you talk about that then every tourist coming in here also pay taxes too, so they should be able to stay if they choose too right since they pay taxes.... but anyways, so, how many illegal immigrants file income taxes? you said they can get tax payer identifications, so um how many of those get them.. that's an actual question ok because i was listening to the radio the other day and they were saying that these illegal immigrants are risking their identities by exposing themself to protest, not going to work and giving up pay to protest because they cant call in sick like legal resident since they work under the table...

i really love the saying "they do the jobs we americans wont do"

 

[dfemc]

um no dfemc i didnt force my parents to learn english because both of them came to this country as college students....graduated then went back to thailand... but yeah, if you choose to live in a certain country, you should at least try to learn their language and not demand that country to learn yours..
the high horse that i'm on.. when i said taxes.. i'm talking about wages, income taxes.. i'm not talking about taxes as in buying food clothes and what not, cus if you talk about that then every tourist coming in here also pay taxes too, so they should be able to stay if they choose too right since they pay taxes.... but anyways, so, how many illegal immigrants file income taxes? you said they can get tax payer identifications, so um how many of those get them.. that's an actual question ok because i was listening to the radio the other day and they were saying that these illegal immigrants are risking their identities by exposing themself to protest, not going to work and giving up pay to protest because they cant call in sick like legal resident since they work under the table...

i really love the saying "they do the jobs we americans wont do"

[post="105107"][/post]​

well, ur parents are very lucky to be part of a priviledged class that came here by choice not due to economic, social, or political circumstances. as for the tourists who are paying the taxes you are talking about, they are able to claim those taxes back in their country. if u have ever traveled before, most of the things u purchase in other countries where u are required to pay foreign tax on, you can reclaim upon entrance to the U.S.

so based on that, foreign tourists are not paying U.S. taxes. and if they do want to stay, why not. many of them already do so. go to new york, n u'll find plenty of european and canadian tourists (irish, german, eastern european) who overstayed their visas and are living here illegally as well. some even own businesses of their own, hopefully ur radio gives u a bit of a background on that too, that it's not JUST MEXICANS.

and by the way, once again, ENGLISH IS NOT the official language of this country. please read the constitution once again... many Americans have that misconception. and no one is forcing anyone to learn another language except the majority ENGLISH language sadly enough. that's why there's ESL, u don't see SSL (spanish as a second language) or CSL (Chinese as a second language) course being shoved down our throats. if those courses did exist, that would be great, maybe Americans wouldn't to feel or look so stupid when we go beyond our comfort bubble n maybe there'd be less racism, if we could learn to communicate with more ppl in this world.

as u ask, how many actually pay taxes with the Tax Payer ID number, the percentage is not all that high, prolly 30% based on CNN's most recent poll. nonetheless, the cheap labor they put into building this country is far more taxing enuf. starving, living out in the cold, and trying to survive everyday is paying taxes. if u want to talk about tax money, haggle bush about the $30 friggin' billion that goes into killing children in iraq everyday. haggle the republicans and corporate america (like enron) who loop-holes the tax system with their princeton-graduate accountant and corporate lawyers. now tell me what's so taxing about those rich, conservative, republican lives...tell me...

personally, if ur gonna go around bombing innocent children with my hard earned money, fuck taxes. i want medicare. i want health care. i want to fuckin' have a better standard of living, and a quality education that keeps me aware of the shiet that goes on in the world and to not be isolated from the global reality. so i dunno what is there to whine so much about immigrants being a drain on the economy or not paying taxes.

if u have ever tried applying for welfare or any government assistant programs, u'd realize a social security number is needed. so let's think about who is actually on government assistant in this country. if the majority is still white americans, go check the census and u'd realize who's the dayam drain on the economy.

n u're right, they're not privilidged enough to risk themselves to protest. only American "citizens" can go out n do something like that feeling protected.

see...this is why we need more education. n not just institutionalized education... but the kind that ppl actually apply to critically thinking and questioning the world around them. -_-

i pray for the young ones everyday. -_-

 

[natty]

awww.. i must apologize for my parents being so priviledged.


but anyways, i never complained about documented immigrants.. i can careless about that because they came in the "right" way, alot of my friends parents are immigrants, refugees that got sponsored to come.. i'm talking about illegals.. and i'm not a witch enough that say "ship them all back and lock the doors", i actually felt really bad for those chinese that were found in crates and in the end had to be shipped back (is that fair? illegal mexicans can stay but illegal chinese must go back, illegal cubans too, it's not fair now is it?) .. so where did you get the indication that i am cold hearted to hate illegals (unless that isnt what i'm feeling that you are feeling then my apologies again). it feels like you are insulted by my post when i merely said, they need to learn how to speak english becuase you have to admit that it is the first language in this country is it not? when we go to school, outside of foreign classes, do we not speak english? or have i been going to the wrong schools? :huh: ... if we have to start speaking spanish because it's demanded, then should we not be required to speak other languages too base on which states or city you're from.. like for instant nyc is made up of many ethnics with different languages, should we not be required to accomodate them too?..... i also stated what majority of the people wanted, did say, or have been complaining about and that is everyone who stays here needs to pay taxes of all kinds.. then you go off and talk about wars and bombings and so on.. i didnt know it all come back to this issue.. i must re-read carefully.. oh and i never mention welfare.. did i? no i dont think i did because i do know that the majority of people on welfare isnt mexicans or blacks, it's actually SE asians.


i feel special cus when others say it.. it get ignore and when i post but not say it, oo i get replies.. not complaining tho.. lol.. just nice to know people pay attention to what i have to say.. ^_^

 

[dfemc]

well...girl it all connects...that's the point, u can't go around isolating issues. n i can see that u don't have anything against "legal" immigrants, as it seems ur family was prolly rooted as one, as many of us are of course.

but i don't see where ur frustration about paying the taxes are... u don't think illegal immigrants pay taxes as mentioned before. u don't think that getting paid $3 an hr. is not considered being taxed. whatever the employer saves from not paying the "illegal" or undocumented immigrants eventually goes to taxes as earned income. so they are being taxed, just not through formal documents, like us.

as for welfare and government assistant; well girl, what do u think taxes go towards; i'm sorry it's hard for some to see the full picture and make a connection, but i guess that takes practice and more awareness.

if u don't see the connection between taxes and government assistance, let me ask, why are u soo concern about everyone having to pay taxes, if u don't quite seem to know what the taxes go towards anyhow...? *confused*

so i guess i'm paying too close of an attention to what ur saying and taking it a few step further than ur able to see. sorry to confuse ya.

n i'm sorry...where did u get those facts that SE asians are the majority on welfare. last time i checked SE asians are still the minorities in this country. wows...that's a new fact, i must say. because where i get the official census, it's "WHITE AMERICANS" that are the a majority, and they are the primary receivers of government assistants. i can provide u with the OFFICIAL/LEGAL census website as well, if need be.

i apologize if i sound a bit frustrated with this issue, but i just wish ppl would take their whinings about "illegal" immigrants this and that a step further in the thought process before they go "illegal" immigrant bashing.

n u know...why is english the first language we learn? i know u're simply trying to be realistic based on ur experiences, but not everyone goes to a all-english speaking school. most kids...especially ghetto kids, which i'm proud to say i'm one of them, grew up in a school that speaks tons of languages. n i'm thankful for that. because i can actually travel and speak those languages myself. what's even better is that i can actually put those languages to good use here.

in the end, this country starts yelping for a labor force that's bi-lingual, tri-lingual, and so on. so, it can only benefit us, that more languages are to be learned. english should not be the only language, but i agree, english must be learned too at some point or another.

as for the cuban and chinese immigrants that get deported, they actually sit around in detention centers before even being deported. do u truly understand the steps and process to deportation? as for mexican immigrants, they are also detained in south san diego right at the border as well before being sent back. u should try watching some of news on teh spanish channels, even tho u may not understand (or u may) the language, but u'll always see a huuuuuge line up of ppl being deported back to mexico every dayam day. so don't think that mexicans get the full stay. well... let's just say i'm quite familiar with the reality of living right off the mexican border. i dunno what state ur from, but if u were right off the border too, maybe u'd get a different piece of reality.

just because u came here legally and work n pay taxes, i don't see what makes u any different from an "illegal" immigrant. the only main difference is, the illegal immigrants actually pay a higher tax than u do. they suffer the hardships of a shiety ass life in the states even when they work hard. for some of us, we may have it bad too even tho we work or asses off, but u gotta say, even our lives a bit better than the conditions of living of most undocumented immigrants. try getting to know some undocumented immigrants first hand first n maybe u'll realize a lot more about the issue. it's always easier to be on the other side, especially when the grass is greener on ur side.

n please no need to apologize for ur parents being priviledged. it's like saying, "oh i'm sorry u were born poor n i'm not". that doesn't do shiet for those who need to eat or have a place to live to survive. apologies aren't needed, u didn't choose to be born priviledged. but u can at least acknowledge that that priviledge comes at the cost of somebody else. -_-

elites are elites for a reason...they reaped it off of somebody else at one point or another in time in order for them to have what they have, and that goes for elites in any country: thailand, america, cambodia, laos, south africa, tazmania, argentina...u name it.

u don't even have to apologize for ur opinion. it's not ur fault that u were raised to beleive what u believe or grew up having the experience that u have, but hopefully u can learn to move beyond that, n open ur mind up to question the reality around u just a bit more...that's what living n learning is all about

 

[natty]

lol see.. you're still not reading what um i didnt say.. and as for the welfare thing, i got that from sociology (btw i still never mention welfare).. so if that is wrong, then my professor is wrong, the text book i had to study from was wrong.. so dont blame me, was in my midterm.

boy you write essays form just me mentioning taxes and languages.. i applaud you for that.. but sorry that i'm soo stupid and dumb to not see the big broader pictures..

and sorry again.. i'm too close minded.. that's what made me soo special for people to pay alot of attention to what i didnt say

 

[dfemc]

girl, it's all good. i guess i got essays goin' up in here, cuz ur words make me think. n that's a good thing, don't get me wrong.

n i know u didn't mention welfare, but it's connected to all the complaining about taxes. as all government assistants are.

as for ur sociology class, i'd like to check out that book, that would be something new for me to learn. i do know that MANY SE Asians, practically all the ones who did come here at one point or another received government assistant because it was necessary. however, they still do NOT constitute the majority of those on welfare. you can refer to: "A Different Mirror" by Ronald Takaki (a professor at UC Berkeley) and see what the welfare-queen theory and yadda yadda's all about. n as mentioned, the census is always a great resource for these kinds of numbers. so u may want to clarify with ur professor.

n this place isn't about a battle of the dumb or the smart, it's an open dialogue. i do admit, i can sound pretty agressive with my ideas, but i do not mean to condescend at all. i don't even go to school or have ever really been in school/college or whatevers. so if u got a professor, ur at least among the formally "educated". so u shouldn't even feel condescended upon. i live n learn of whatever comes at me from the streets of life. so this is my style of learning.

u have ur point and at least ur sharing it, n it's helping to challenge my beliefs and values as well as many others, i'm sure. so let's keep it that way. a world without a dialogue is a dead end reality.

 

[jekki2chipo]

dude, i just felt like i got a whole lecture just reading them post, doesn't really address the question or provide an answer to the first post. oh well don't wanna say much, but NO COMMENT. hehehe