Laos urges suspension of a Thai soap opera

Phon

sarNie Adult
yes, i believe the thai government isn't trying to stir something up, they have enough headache with their own political instability. neighboring countries like laos shouldn't be revamped as a rebounding enemy from a simple lakorn. it just doesn't make sense. it'd be like the whole reasoning behind why the crips and bloods are rivals. once u find out why, you simply look at it and laugh because it's pure stupidity.

but saying that all close minded people aren't educated is a little biased. or mean if u want to take it. i believe some people in laos leading laos in the path it is now is educated, but like u said, closed minded and won't listen to, or, respect anyone elses' opinions. kind of a distructive way of leading but there isn't much that can be done...because once someone tries, they're knocked down like a piece of dominoe because of the domination of people's minds, certain people are brought up to sincerely believe it should be this way, so remove all rebals, and no one can change it. if any, it will take more than simple words.

no, this is no longer in the hands of the producers in thailand, because it's dealing with a conflict between two countries in which can occur and cause destruction to their country. again, like i've typed so many times, the reason why thailand is paying attention to this "urging" from the laos government is because they are not trying to create conflict amongst their neighboring country, they are trying to build a better relationship. i don't know about friendship, but it's a relationship in which will benefit them both. financially and economically.

i didn't find frustration about the respect they have for the flower, but your quote of "dok champa is very much respected among Lao People as to the respect to the King," and it's not much frustration, and it's why this flower is being a basis to many of the discussions we're having. it's just not politically correct for you to compare the respect to a flower to a king. your information of respect for the flower that represents laos may be correct, but i know for a fact everyone will agree that no one will bend down to pick up the champa flower that was just fallen onto the ground.

Germany and the holocaust, was like cambodia and pol pot, it's ended with its dictator's death. additionally, they were "in trouble," many people from other countries were sent in to help and take down the power. and america and the hiroshima incident, japan at the time tried to fight back but lost, which still lingers now, but because of business/economic power they meet again, all this world is coming to is money and power. everyone is working on becoming #1, this is why they drop the past like it's nothing. that was the past... 10s of years ago. history will be looked at just like the war in iraq today, it happened and possibly 40 to 60 years from now we'll probably be great friends with iraq.

Talking about censoring, like i've mentioned before. they have an extent of freedom because you don't want to harm someone physically and mentally by airing something. also you don't want to expose to the immature viewers what they shouldn't be observing. these are pure common sense items we should all be well aware of. likely a reasoning behind europe and other countries not screening their media as much is likely people are more active than in the states, constantly sitting on their couches and waiting to watch the next prime time episode. and also considering the demographics of the USA, you don't want to air things to defend a huge population, in europe, you can air things happening in USA it's not affecting them and their political situation. if usa releases videos of 9/11, the world will be watching, leading to the terrorists who's likely to be watching and know every move of the usa, which isn't the brightest move to do, if you ask me.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i've not once said your opinion is wrong so keep going, this is quite amuzing.
about flower and king exactly king is king flower is flower. If I had to choose to bow down to it be the king not the flower. King give me land to live on and a country flower give me nothing beside just a simbol. If Laos had a king and he was kind and good like the Thai king I bow down to him to to show respect. if you want me to bow down to a flower and respect it get me drunk and maybe I will. King flower cant be compare. The laos war back then why did people fought for the country and monarchy they didnt fight for the survival of dok champa. dok champa (lao) or dok luntome (thai) is the same thing. Thai grow them in the temple or grave yard. I dont know how this grave yard flower can be a simbol of a country. Unless its representing a dead country. Or dok champa laos is grown somewhere eles not grave yard I could be mistaking but in Thailand its grown in grave yard or temple. somewhere where there no people.
Ummmm I know japan and america had hates between the 2 becuase of the bombing and world war 2. But japan and america both move on thats why thier 1 of the leading top countries in economy techonology today. To be success you gotta learn to forget and forgive. if you live in hate your going nowhere. The past is the past we new generation sappose to make it better and not make the mistake our ancestor or elders made. But this lao deang lao kao rival is still going on like it or not. I know becuase my father brother friend went back to laos and vanish. Not gonna go in detail about it. But this rival is still going on. Not to saying anything bad about us lao people but. we can never seem to get voer the past even the war with thailand in 1828. we still bring that up here and there and tension flies high. Well we gotta remember thailand and thier capital burn down by burma they forgot and move on and look at them now thier economy not perfect or great but good enough to survive. If laos can get over the hump we be where thailand is today or even past thailand but we cant forget forgive thats how we are I think its ignorant aroogant stubborn combine. Making us blind. Even the young kids my age talking about 1828 war with thailand act like they live through it when its been 100yrs ago. History to me is fake until proven real people past on and lie about it. No one tells the truth. You think if I tell you a story you will keep it the same as what i told you? no. you will add some more stuff here and there. And thats how it become a story. I dont believe in anything unless I see it with my eye which will never happen so I dont believe it and I dont stress about it. Now these young kids wanna stress over something they never witness they are stupid. thats my point of view. Take some lesson from japan and america move on and forget the war. Oh forgot england and america had a war in the 1775 i believe and they forgot and forgive. england and america are now allies and england and america are both one of the richies and powerful nation in the world. They dont live in the past like us.
 

chonny

sarNie Egg
WOW! This is a very hot topic in SarnWorld. Do I dare to voice my opinion? Afterall, I don't want people to wrongly accuse me of being in favor of or being kick out of the country hehe.

Champ I have to give you two thumbs up for being brave and allowing us to look at this situation in a different angle :yahoo: You got my reputation vote!!

I would have to also AGREED WITH SUNSTAR about Champ! Champ, I agreed with you over 100%!!! You stole every single words from my mouth. No wonder your name is Champ and your a champ on this topic.

After skimming through some of these comments, it seems to me that everyone is basically saying or implying what is Champ is saying, but in different wording hehe

1.noungning elaborates more on what Champ is saying,
2.then Phon agreed with noungning which is,
3.basically what Champ is saying hehe,
4.then Phon stray off tangent on something stupid

Champ makes the readers think and doesn't make up their mind for them at least that is the impression I got when read through it.

Your good Champ!

But for Phon, there are so many false information and unrealistic comments that was made. I have to agreed with Champ that Phon if you keep typing like this your fingers will bleed hehe. Next time write something more intelligent.

Champ why would you even suggest having Phon running the country? Just imagine how that would be like, if Phon disagree with your opinion, there will be guns pointing against your head demanding you to flee the country. There will be people fleeing from left and right and Phon will be the only person "ruling" herself hehe.

As for noungning, I believe Champ only replied once to your comment and I don't recall Champ mentioned anything that you mentioned that your opinion is wrong.

Yes, I have to agreed that this is a very interesting to read the comments (don't know about Phon).

Champ I totally understand what your point is about "the level of respect", but I don't think others really fully understand it. I can't blame you though because it is hard to explain it in writing. As I recalled back in the 90's when two US journalists, made some stupid comment about a person who Thai admires and respected-Thai King and everyone went bazzard (almost got their head chop off even though it is in a monarchy democratic country) hehe and demanding them to leave the country hehe, otherwise who knows what will happen to them. You can see such thing happening through out the world where politician steps in certain matter, but that's the reality.

Yea, what is so wrong with people crossing the border? It is not like they are illegally immigrants crossing the border. Thailand should be happy that they are contributing to their wealth (economy). I see it as if Thailand do shut off countries such as Laos, they will suffer as well. We are becoming more of a globalization economy now.

What is so wrong with countries helping countries? It happens everyday. As I see it, when you help someone, they usually get something in return not at that moment but in the future (or just a warm thank you to trigger some sort of relationship). If Lao government is paying Thai workers, I don't see that as Thai helping Laos because they are getting paid to do so. Then some people went off the tangent about not caring about the funding anymore after Champ provides fact about "so called helping" hehe

Keep it going Champ...I will have to visit here more often.

P.S. If I need help on something like this I will surely come and ask for you Champ hehe

I come in peace <olive branch>! Please don't shoot me or bite my head off!
 

sweetbabe

sarNie Egg
this topic is about Laos urges suspension of a Thai soap opera so stick to the topic. I understand that laos represent dok champa and thai don’t. It a normal thing for a lao government to get all at about this. But you have to understand that lakorn is a lakorn not real it all part of acting. . If I’m not wrong this lakorn is held in Thailand not Laos. So it wouldn’t be getting mad about it cause like I said Thai country don’t’ represent dok champa. If it was held in Laos then I understand for the government to get mad about this. I was reading what others and my self have said over again. One thing I notice that champ was comparing dok champa to Thai king. First of all you do not compare a king to a flower. Dok champa can’t do anything for you. That is a big different. I would understand if champ compare a Laos king to Thai king. That would be worth getting mad about. About a woman getting pregnant without a dad yes it happens in Laos it just that you don’t’ notice it. Well some of those women marry other guy to cover it up or hide themselves so from other who like to talk a lot of shit. Mistake happen no one is perfect.
 

noungning

Heartless
As for noungning, I believe Champ only replied once to your comment and I don't recall Champ mentioned anything that you mentioned that your opinion is wrong.
lol i wasn't saying that the individual is against my comment. i'm saying the whole point of suggesting a comparison such as that is quite arrogant and vain.

additionally with what you've paraphrased, correct, there are certain items mentioned on here from champ i've agreed on, BUT NOT everything. because although, it is apparently claimed to be unbiased, it is. and although, the composer is suggesting not to put personal feelings into the debate, they are.

but i still stand behind what i said since the very first post i've posted on here... it's just pure stupidity.

but yet again, this is quite amuzing.
 

KhoOnxNouxWanxJai

Staff member
You know.... I do seriously have one question if the script were flip and it was Laos making some kind of movie/lakorn of another country .. and "went against" their customs also.. would they understand if the other countries push to ban their movie/lakorn? ... and no one can say either yes or no .. because you don't know what they would or would not do.. so in other words what I'm trying to say is .. they should really look at it from both sides.. if it were them .. they would feel the same... and its b.s to say "they won't do such a thing" .. and also.. this issue is kinda making them seem hypocritical .. because I mean this is just gaining public attention towards them .. after all it'll be like america "We Don't Believe In War" but yet we have troops going to another country .. and also people should really choose wisely before they say or speak... because what you say may make sense to you .. but not those reading it .. so its better to know what your point is.. and my point is ;) this isn't and he wrong she wrong type of thing... but a debate on opinions .. so I didn't find it right about how some people were insulting one another .. and don't say that it didn't happen.. because if you go back and read alot of the statements ..you can see my point proven ..
 

Phon

sarNie Adult
sweetbabe I already mention about the king and flower just the way yu said it. i already mention about the women being pregnant like what you said. And about this drama being ban. I agree with all 3 becuase I already said it alot times. :yahoo:
 

marduk

Sarnie Clown!
Geez, I don't even know where to begin. However, I do have to say that this section of the forum has some of the most interesting topics I've seen. I never came to this section before that other thread (whatchamacallit....).

Anyway, I read through most of the first page and then skimmed through the second. There's just too much in there and I don't want to take the time to go through all of it. For the most part, people are just repeating themselves. Here's what I see so far.

Champ makes the most logical arguments. I can't say I agree with all of it, but they're the most logical.

Phon, I understand where you're coming from. My family have also been affected by the communist coup in Laos. I'm sure a lot of us have. However, I think you use too much bias in your arguments. Also, it would be nice if you spread out your writing more. It's hard for me to go through just one huge paragraph. Nevertheless, you do bring up some valid points...which leads to my final thing.

The Flower vs. the King debate:
I'm going to have to agree with Champ on this one. He's talking about the symbolic nature of the flower. Saying that a king can only be compared to a king and a flower only to a flower is too narrow-minded. Laos no longer has a monarchy, but there are certain things that it takes pride in. The flower is one of them. You can't just trivialize it just because you believe it's worth less than the King of Thailand.

This next part I want to make absolutely clear. I'm no where close to be pro-communist. HOWEVER, I don't think the Lao gov't was being too much by trying to protect the interest of its country. They have their own reason for doing things. I still think getting upset over a flower is dumb, but at the same time, you have to be willing to protect whatever it is you believe in. They want to exercise some type of control over their image so I think that justifies them griping about the show. A lot of countries have done this. Look at Borat/Kazakhstan and Thailand/the book "The King Never Smiles."

I made the point to say that I am not pro-communist because of some of the posts in here. I found some of Phon's posts offensive and they weren't even directed at me. Even though I found some of the stuff Champ wrote a little too preachy, he (she?) tried to not be too offensive. However, you accused Champ of being pro-communist as a response. Thats' not right in a debate. You also wrote that those that agree with you should post a reply and those that don't should not. Why discuss anything at all if we should all just sit here agreeing with one another?

A debate like this will always be heated. So in the end, I hope everyone lightens up.
 

Phon

sarNie Adult
Geez, I don't even know where to begin. However, I do have to say that this section of the forum has some of the most interesting topics I've seen. I never came to this section before that other thread (whatchamacallit....).

Anyway, I read through most of the first page and then skimmed through the second. There's just too much in there and I don't want to take the time to go through all of it. For the most part, people are just repeating themselves. Here's what I see so far.

Champ makes the most logical arguments. I can't say I agree with all of it, but they're the most logical.

Phon, I understand where you're coming from. My family have also been affected by the communist coup in Laos. I'm sure a lot of us have. However, I think you use too much bias in your arguments. Also, it would be nice if you spread out your writing more. It's hard for me to go through just one huge paragraph. Nevertheless, you do bring up some valid points...which leads to my final thing.

The Flower vs. the King debate:
I'm going to have to agree with Champ on this one. He's talking about the symbolic nature of the flower. Saying that a king can only be compared to a king and a flower only to a flower is too narrow-minded. Laos no longer has a monarchy, but there are certain things that it takes pride in. The flower is one of them. You can't just trivialize it just because you believe it's worth less than the King of Thailand.

This next part I want to make absolutely clear. I'm no where close to be pro-communist. HOWEVER, I don't think the Lao gov't was being too much by trying to protect the interest of its country. They have their own reason for doing things. I still think getting upset over a flower is dumb, but at the same time, you have to be willing to protect whatever it is you believe in. They want to exercise some type of control over their image so I think that justifies them griping about the show. A lot of countries have done this. Look at Borat/Kazakhstan and Thailand/the book "The King Never Smiles."

I made the point to say that I am not pro-communist because of some of the posts in here. I found some of Phon's posts offensive and they weren't even directed at me. Even though I found some of the stuff Champ wrote a little too preachy, he (she?) tried to not be too offensive. However, you accused Champ of being pro-communist as a response. Thats' not right in a debate. You also wrote that those that agree with you should post a reply and those that don't should not. Why discuss anything at all if we should all just sit here agreeing with one another?

A debate like this will always be heated. So in the end, I hope everyone lightens up.

how about champ saying i got tiny brain compare to him and asking me how much education I recieve. Shouldnt I be offended by that? so getting upset by being call a pro communist? oh well seem like you people get upset pretty fast. and if it wasnt toward you why you gotta be upset for? and i said people who dont agree with me. dont reply me maybe you and champ didnt see me lol at the end? If I was serious you wouldnt see a lol in my sentence. Yall take stuff to seriously. shouldnt i be going off by now since he put down my education and comparing my brain to his. But I have to much class in me to get mad over the internet. I'm not saying you dont have any class. I'm just saying taking something seriously over a internet is pathetic. :tease: :yahoo: :drool:
 

marduk

Sarnie Clown!
how about champ saying i got tiny brain compare to him and asking me how much education I recieve. Shouldnt I be offended by that? so getting upset by being call a pro communist? oh well seem like you people get upset pretty fast. and if it wasnt toward you why you gotta be upset for? and i said people who dont agree dont with me. dont reply me maybe you and champ didnt see me lol at the end? If I was serious you wouldnt see a lol in my sentence. Yall take stuff to seriously. shouldnt i be going off by now since he put down my education and comparing my brain to his. But I have to class to get mad over the internet. I'm not saying you dont have any class. I'm just saying taking something seriously over a internet is pathetic. :tease: :yahoo: :drool:
Eh, I did write that he was a little too preachy, but I see what you mean. You have every right to be upset. But like I said, I read all of the first page and only skimmed through the second. So the comments you made first struck out at me. I'm not taking anything seriously, so don't think that. Those are just my observations. I don't even know Champ nor you. As for the joking part. It's hard to tell when someone is sarcastic or serious or whatnot. Just because you put lol at the end doesn't really say much. If it's otherwise, then I'm sorry. What I believe before was wrong then. Still, the rest of my comment still stands. But yeah, I'm not here to personally attack you, so don't take it the wrong way. I mean, if we go with the word "attacking", I guess I'm attacking both of you, but I just didn't say enough about Champ.

However, I'm not.
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
hahhaa...i finally caught up...phhhhewwww...

okay...*breathing*.... man oh man, champ did most of the work, and i'm absolutely in love with champ right now :) all the points were right on dot. duk, this is the exact reason why i find myself in this thread. interestingly enough, media, world, politics, and all the good juice intersects here.

to extend on some of champ's points, it would help if ppl could see the connection between how media actually shapes perceptions of the ppl within the nation as well as the national image of the country. it's a big deal, whether you'd like to acknowledge it or not. it's not "JUST A LAKORN"

every country has its interest to protect, as they are all sovereign and binded to both the common and individual interests of the people. but i'm not gonna sit here and put champ's words on rewind in different forms. but it's too bad that, many in here find these "lakorns" and "dramas" to be such a trivial matter.

in some sense, it is a lot of brainfarting. but now that i've had a chance to glimpse thru some of these works (via's my ma's tv screen), it's total propaganda. but you'd probably argue, "what media piece isn't." if u actually disect the thai lakorns, they really construct people's belief system on what's ethical, morally good and bad. it seems like there's a formula to the whole thing, well there actually is. and much of that i'm sure is based off of the general good vs evil themes from Southeast Asian folklores on the whole. otherwise, you wouln't see the main character emphasizing certain actions as something that makes a good "pra cha chon" or elderlys criticizing the young ppl's behavior. i personally watch more of the indie thai films that takes on a very artistic touch and critique of thai soceital issues. but most of the general stuff i see out in the lakorns from my ma's house and in thailand seems to offer decent insights on modern family life while defining the roles and values of modern adolescents in Thailand.

one of the biggest turnoffs i've had with thai dramas were scenes of the main guy raping the girl. it's ridiculous how it's made an acceptable cultural norm for a guy to do such a thing. but ironically, it protrays the act to be a bad thing if the bad guy does it. i personally don't get it, but i'm sure it has to do with the gender and power dynamics of the country that i can't seem to fully grasp. i don't have a right to impose what i find is acceptable or inacceptable on the ppl, but at the same time i have a right to not support it.

similarly, the Laotian gov't is expressing that right as a sovereign nation to do so. though i do not know much about this "lakorn" or series that you are all speaking of, however, basing off the current discussions at hand, the Laotian National image will be effected by this movie no matter how trivial you may perceive this. First, it's a cross-country series, so it will portray Laos or a Laotian individual in a certain light whether that's the intentions or not. Secondly, as with any work of art, literary, musical, or film peices, symbols dig at a whole 'nother core of any identity or feelings, and that's what the Dok Champa issues all about.

though it's not a King, ppl do die over and die for matters like this. it's happened throughout history and religious cults today. the heart of the matter is the ideology behind the representation is what's to die for. that same ideology shapes soo many aspects of ppl's lives, though in this case, it's just a silly flower to most of you. you don't realize the power of a national image. u don't need to use a gun to kill someone nor do i have to blatantly curse u off with the F-word, in the grander arena, it's pen whips, rhetoric, metaphors, and symbols that kill. so seriously, take some time to critically deconstruct what you watch and listen to, because you may find that it's more than just mindless entertainment, but contributes to your understanding and "fictional experience" of the world somehow and someway. it's an inevitable effect of any stimuli (and no i'm not going to get into the socio-pyscho-biological discussions behind this).

on another note, Laos as a nation and where it stands with its government is functioning within its historical, political, and economic context. i'm going to move onto a personal bias, as i know this area of the matter can't be as objective as the taste of your coffee. i've also extended my experience beyond "plato's cave" :lol: as Champa and i'm sure many of u have. having that privilege and opportunity to live, work, and grow up in different regions, comparably, I believe Laos is doing it's best within its mean. and no one is to judge what is the ideal government for any nation. that's the rights of the people of that nation to do so. and it's so funny that ppl do distinguish the ppl from the government of a nation. to some extent, yes, the two are of their own entity, but whether you are part of the majority or not, the people still have a hand in constructing that government, nonetheless. i did not vote for the dumbass chimp to run our country, but nonetheless, a good majority of hicks out there did. so the entire nation suffers. well same holds for the other hundreds of nations out there.

to get to point, Laos is no worse or no better than any of the surrounding nations. but it sure does have a lot of economic potential in the coming, and if anything i do support some of the direction it's moving in and i like it the way it is in many ways. i can't say what i want out of it, but i do know what i don't want. but that's the point of growth, it's to strive for the balance that suits it. being smushed (or landlocked) under China and Thailand, modernization and industrialization is inevitable, but i was not in complete support of the free market nor the human rights abuse. however, i am in support of a free market with certain environmental and labor rights stipulations. but u can't expect the trickle-down-democracy to serve as the key to the nation's happiness. i wouldn't count on it. at this point, i'll have to say, that Laos is pretty grounded. historically, it's been taken advantage of by many nations and i'm sure have done so to other nations to some extent too, but the point is, it's still in the works. give it a break. if ur truly interested in committing to making changes, make ur way over there and do something about it (though i use to hate this line myself), but there's really more to demeaning each other back and forth about it. not that constructive dialogue is bad, not at all, if anything, it's the way to go. but it's the non-constructive part that's ::::ARRRRGH-ing" and if ur disturbed by the lack of unity of the Laotian community abroad, consider options to find ur role in making it different. but if u believe that making a change with urself is the start to making the bigger change, then keep ur mind open.

tho, i'm not formally educated in the ways that most of u are, college-wise and all that good stuff, i think there's more than one one way to learn and critically observe the world that's beyond what only formal institutions can offer. so phon, if u don't look to see what you're eating, you could be chewing at your own tail, because life isn't as trivial as u make it, if anything, someone out there could be orchestrating it altogether (like business and politics) ;)

p.s. oh another point to be made, the whole thing on "oh thai is so nice, they do this and that to help Laos." uhmm...folks, it's called economic interests and further more it's reparations, but then what is reparations really without economic interests.... it's bling-bling that makes the world goes round. for more info, u can look at the amount of foreign investments in the natural resources in Laos along with some of the investments mentioned by Champ. the Laos embassy site is a great resource, but just don't believe everything u see. but that should be your rule of thumb on the whole for living life, anyhooo, no?
 

sarN

sarNie Granny
i been reading since day 1 . This the most interesting thread in SW . I really love all the comment and ague from both of ya point of view . I want to speak out too but im limited in my vocabulary lolz plus i don't know anything about Losa government :kiss:
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
u know i wish i can bring this to table a forum on national image, as this topic is quite relevant to such themes. it is important to be mindful of the fact that every nation strives to build a national image and identity. and i mean "every" country, especially the u.s. bush is implementing the patriot act out his ass and hiding behind the "war on terror" for this "grand ol' flag" aka the U.S. of A. Well, Thailand went through it's phase with creating the "thai-ness" movement, which even marginalized much of its chinese and other ethnic minorities. as many of u put it, some Laotians don't even seem to care about the issue as much, they would even stomp on the Dok Champa themselves and the Lao gov't seems to be the one behind this. well u must understand that from the government's perspective, this is a step towards building a national identity and grasping to some sense of nationalism. Most Laotians out there may not have the same kind of drive to unify and strengthen a sense of national pride to be Laotians, but u must consider how long it took Thailand to do that with theirs and at what cost. I'd say the Lao gov't is asking for a much smaller price than Thailand has paid on thier national identity, and there's no reason for them to not have it. man bal jao (is it not right)?
 

noungning

Heartless
though it's not a King, ppl do die over and die for matters like this. it's happened throughout history and religious cults today. the heart of the matter is the ideology behind the representation is what's to die for. that same ideology shapes soo many aspects of ppl's lives, though in this case, it's just a silly flower to most of you. you don't realize the power of a national image. u don't need to use a gun to kill someone nor do i have to blatantly curse u off with the F-word, in the grander arena, it's pen whips, rhetoric, metaphors, and symbols that kill. so seriously, take some time to critically deconstruct what you watch and listen to, because you may find that it's more than just mindless entertainment, but contributes to your understanding and "fictional experience" of the world somehow and someway. it's an inevitable effect of any stimuli (and no i'm not going to get into the socio-pyscho-biological discussions behind this).

...

p.s. oh another point to be made, the whole thing on "oh thai is so nice, they do this and that to help Laos." uhmm...folks, it's called economic interests and further more it's reparations, but then what is reparations really without economic interests.... it's bling-bling that makes the world goes round. for more info, u can look at the amount of foreign investments in the natural resources in Laos along with some of the investments mentioned by Champ. the Laos embassy site is a great resource, but just don't believe everything u see. but that should you be rule of thumb on the whole for living life anyhooo, no?
true, it is the ideology behind the flower's representation. this is why it is one of the controversial subjects of this lakorn. [i should back up and also say that i know nothing of this lakorn besides what was stated on this thread.] in any event, understandable that back in the past, people might've fought over this flower or what ever has took place, i'm not a historian, so this flower might've meant something. but talking in a present perspective, likely, only a minimal population in laos holds this significance in their mind up until this controversial topic arised. like i've referenced in many of the posts i have about people not caring for such thing and just stepping over this flower in their own country, but yet making a "big deal" as many says from this flower in this lakorn being thrown in a dust bin. i know this lakorn is like a projection to the world. demonstrating what laos might be perceived as for those naive viewers that believe in everything they see. which is also why the whole being an unmarried mother controversy is another problem, "that doesn't happen with laotian girls," sure it doesn't... but going back to the flower, yes symbol wise, the flower might mean something to many...but from my opinion, it means a nations flower, not a king, not the same extent of a respect a king gets. i don't think anyone in laos would step over a picture of their king once it's fallen onto the ground [unless, they simply don't care, but that's another case].

i don't have much to say about the government infrastructure, but i believe that everyone has a voice that can't be heard. so there will keep on being slow movements towards improvement? furthermore, good comparison, bush, too many voices heard but nothing done to change. we're looking at laos in an industrialized perspective.

hence the reason why we are debating, thailand needs to keep laos' relationship, why would they care if they're not getting something from it. in the long run all relationship are about mutual benefits. but the only problem is laos is compared to a leecher... the more they receive, the more they demand. then it goes into the whole stubborn for acceptance and blah blah blah... <_<
 

noungning

Heartless
u know i wish i can bring this table a forum on national image, as this topic is quite relevant to such themes. it is important to be mindful of the fact that every nation strives to build a national image and identity. and i mean "every" country, especially the u.s. thailand went through it's phase with creating the "thai-ness" movement, which even marginalized much of its chinese and other ethnic minorities. as many of u put it, some Laotians don't even seem to care about hte issue as much, they would even stomp on the Dok Champa themselves and the Lao gov't seems to be the one behind this. well u must understand that form the government's perspective, this is a step towards building a national identity and grasping to some sense of nationalism. Most Laotians out there may not have the same kind of drive to unify and strengthen a sense of national pride to be Laotians, but u must consider how long it took Thailand to do that with theirs and at what cost. I'd say the Lao gov't is asking for a much smaller price than Thailand has paid on thier national identity, and there's no reason for them to not have it. man bal jao (is it not right)?
so you're seeing this flower as a national movement towards laos identifying themselves to the world?
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
it's a start my dear, or at least they're taking it as an opportunity with the media exploits. ;) most governments are opportunistic when it comes to things like this :) leeching is always mutual as well. but ur talking about nation-building, so any and all resources at hand are fair game.
 

marduk

Sarnie Clown!
one of the biggest turnoffs i've had with thai dramas were scenes of the main guy raping the girl. it's ridiculous how it's made an acceptable cultural norm for a guy to do such a thing. but ironically, it protrays the act to be a bad thing if the bad guy does it. i personally don't get it, but i'm sure it has to do with the gender and power dynamics of the country that i can't seem to fully grasp. i don't have a right to impose what i find is acceptable or inacceptable on the ppl, but at the same time i have a right to not support it.

Haha, you made your way over to this thread too I see...

About the above thing you just said, I'm in between my natural inclination to disagree with everything you say and the fact that I've been thinking that for a long time. I never got why anyone thought those scenes were cool I find them ridiculous. One moment the girl is like "no, no, no" and then the morning after the rape, they're all cuddly. But oh well, it's a different culture out there.

Some other things...
1) It's funny how our vocabs get better as people start to respond back to one another

2) I can't say I agree with you not agreeing with the free market dfemc. I can't remember exactly your words, but I think I read you were against the human rights abuse thing and all that. I mean, I'm not against making working conditions better for everyone (every would be against human rights abuse), but sometimes I have issues with people arguing against working conditions for people when the jobs that were there is very important. For example, let's say Nike opened a factory in SE Asia somewhere. The pay is horrible and the working conditions suck. However, this is the ONLY job that's around. A lot of people there are happy they have a job. Yet there are people who try to impose the western view that it's a sweat job and then go picketing against Nike. Nike doesn't want to deal with it and then close the factory because now the cost is more than what it wants to pay. I think that sucks. True, the working conditions can be better, but now they have no jobs at all. I can't say I have a solution, but I'll write about that if the time ever comes up.

3) Ning-O, the flower is still symbolic even if people don't respect it as much. I think the debate that came up was whether the flower can be compared to the King of Thailand or not, not whether it is better than the King of Thailand as a symbol. It might not be respected as much as the King of Thailand. I don't know that for sure. But in terms of it's symbolic importance to the identify of Laos, I think it's comparable.
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
Haha, you made your way over to this thread too I see...

2) I can't say I agree with you not agreeing with the free market dfemc. I can't remember exactly your words, but I think I read you were against the human rights abuse thing and all that. I mean, I'm not against making working conditions better for everyone (every would be against human rights abuse), but sometimes I have issues with people arguing against working conditions for people when the jobs that were there is very important. For example, let's say Nike opened a factory in SE Asia somewhere. The pay is horrible and the working conditions suck. However, this is the ONLY job that's around. A lot of people there are happy they have a job. Yet there are people who try to impose the western view that it's a sweat job and then go picketing against Nike. Nike doesn't want to deal with it and then close the factory because now the cost is more than what it wants to pay. I think that sucks. True, the working conditions can be better, but now they have no jobs at all. I can't say I have a solution, but I'll write about that if the time ever comes up.
you didn't read my entire response, did you? <_<

modernization and industrialization is inevitable, but i was not in complete support of the free market nor the human rights abuse. however, i am in support of a free market with certain environmental and labor rights stipulations. but u can't expect the trickle-down-democracy to serve as the key to the nation's happiness. i wouldn't count on it. at this point, i'll have to say, that Laos is pretty grounded.
a free market is great when it's truly free or truly strives to be free duk. i beleive it's much needed and no, i'm not entirely anti-capitalistic as i was during my younger days. i believe capitalism is necessary and has always co-existed with communal ideals and practices throughout history. so to clarify, there are alternative ways of doing this, and i have quite a few in mind. i'll elaborate when i'm in the mood to put out some public policy work. kapish kapish...
 

kliem

sarNie Egg
aiya! hot topic indeed and way too many post to read. so sorry that i didn't read all of them even though i really wanted too.

from what i've comprehend, the production company of the lakorn gave the lao pdr government a premiere viewing of the lakorn in order to receive their inputs and suggestions. thus the lao pdr government responded accordingly, which was to ban or delay the airing of the lakorn in and only in laos on the bases of what was posted in the first post of this thread. this is an action that was similarly taken by the thai government to ban the airing of anna&theking throughout thailand. thus respectively the production company decided to delay airing the lakorn in thailand as well hence, the lao pdr government don't have the authority to ban airing in thailand.

several members have argued that the bases of banning or delaying the lakorn is invalid and are just mere trivial excuses by the lao pdr government. this maybe true or maybe not true because none of us has view the premiere like the lao pdr government has and to be honest, if the lakorn really did emphasize such negative aspects towards laotians in general then i would disagree to air it as well especially if i had the ability to do that in my nation. some also say that a lakorn should just be a lakorn and nothing more. but all lakorn have messages and i believe lakorns do effect the audience if not their society. this is also the first time a well known lao figure to many young lao ppl is presented in a lakorn so the lao pdr government should be involve since it will effect the ppl in their nation. thus to me, the involvment of the lao pdr government is legit.

so, i do get that every nations emphasize another nations as the villians all the time such as in movies and all is still well between the 2 nations afterward but whats wrong with the lao pdr government trying to balance out both the positives and negatives that are being presented of the lao culture in the lakorn. yes ppl do get pregnant before marriage nowadays, but nothing is wrong if the lao pdr government is trying to emphasize a more positively aspects of the lao ppl living in their nation. i also understand that the lao pdr government is also trying to diminish such wrong ideas that lao girls are easy which was rumor to be precieve by many young thais. and i also understand how the lao pdr government and some nationalists can be affend if national flower was tossed away like a mere piece of trash, afterall the symbolic meaning of the champa flower is the country laos. would you toss away your country just like a mere peice of trash?

to be honest i was also looking forward to watch this lakorn but if there are controversial matters within the lakorn that might stir-up deeper social tensions between the two nations then i agree that a halt or delay is crucial. it's just too bad that the production company of this lakorn wasn't working with the lao pdr government to begin with, since they knew that alexandra is a popular pop idol in laos and not to mention basically a very well known representative of laos. however, i believe that actions being taken by both the lao pdr government and the production company as of right is a good sign.
 

alby

sarNie Hatchling
Skimmed through most of the post, all seem to be arguing over the same thing. But I think everybody should (in the words of Champ) think outside of the box. ^_^
 
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