Shamanism & Christianism

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nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
Let's talk about Shamanism & Christianism. Which one has better options in life? =)

I chose Christianism over shamanism because they have better stories. haha!
And Shamanism is just too scary in a way. I heard that demon is Shaman Shi Yig's younger brother. They betrayed God so God kicked them out of the heaven includes those that betrayed him also. So they were lost in the world of jungle. This is why we have ghost appear physically for some people that could see. Demon was once an angel but lawv tau hloov siab hloov ntsws thiab coj phem thiab ntxeev siab rau vaj tswv. Lawv thiaj li dhau mus ua demons lawm. =)

My gosh, I am shamanist and we have "xwm kab" and "dab thaiv vaj tse" and etc. I think this is bothering me now. I just want to believe in god and live peacefully. Oh and you know what? I heard that demons were the ones to destroy people and life. They can act like humans and have knowledge like humans but they may not have flesh like humans. They can also go into human's body to possess them on whichever way if they choose or find you. But you know, demon obey god even though they have lost their home of heaven. It's the law. They can't disobey him even now. When you become a christian, you are avoiding those demons to get out of your way which is a good thing. Because you have god in you. The demons can't be near. It's like God nyob qhov twg ces ntxw nyoog nyob tsis tau qhov ntawd. Yups=) (sorry if im too poor at telling) hehe..

Omg and you know what is the worse ever about a shaman? especially when they do the jingle bell and most of them shaman gives you random interpretation. You see when you have to go saib yaig and this one said something else and the other one said something more and that one said another thing..(thats for example) now you see..so its all interpretation, shaman cant be real when it comes to healing! This is like..omg..wth it seems fake and i used to believe in whatever they tell my parents about it. Now I was ill for about almost a year and my parents ua neeb kho kuv and this is what the shaman told them "oh, koj tus ntxhais yuav ua neeb" LMAO! this cracked me up heck of bad and I didn't believe on this. Because i believe in something else which is god. =D (if something you dont believe it and if you chose not to. That is magical and it works in a way) And guess what? I am fine now and my sickness has gone alot better than usual. Because I set my faith and i pray independently. I could careless for what the shaman has told me..i wont fall into that stupid thing. There's a verse in the bible said that god forgives you and your sin when it comes near to death and nothing can be heal when you just wanna commit a crime but god said its not good to do that. One best way is to come believe in him and give up yourself and pray to him then he will see you and heal your wound. You will be cure when you begin to communicate with him spiritually. (that happens if you really believe so) Now for the shaman way. It's harder you have to do more things to heal your wounds. hahah! and you knew it! You got to use money and shit..go find pigs and chickens and dogs to replace your sin. That sucks because you still have to use money, you see? But for god, he don't need that. He only need your faith in your heart.

So my question is, why do we need to believe in shaman/demons? When they are the worse?? They ruin your life and everything. This seem like depending yes but we need to see that they are evils in our eyes. They used trick to play humans and we could fall for it. =( etc.. Oh and i almost forgot to mention this too, demons were the one that tso kev mob kev nkeeg los rau ntiaj teb thiab tib neeg. They make you sick and then you will have to seek for them back and forth and it just like they are using or playing you?? this is sick! (just like love, the one that play your heart haha) They are evils and will always be. =( That's a sin of demons and god won't forgive them. God has planned to renew the earth. But i dont know when that will comes.

And back to the topic, i think when you become believing in god. You will find your route when you died. =) but of this, im not 99% sure for those that are non-believer..hmm..where do they go? (i think i know the answer but unsure) i always hear this from the OG "cov neeg coj zoo thiab ua zoo yuav tau ntuj ntoo thiab mus cuag ntuj ceeb tsheej hos cov ua coj phem thiab tais ntuj yuav poob mus rau ntuj tsaus" and i do not understand the meaning of this. its kinda of confusing, very hard to picturize too. i need more details.

this shit is too much and everything is twisting in alot of ways...it just dont make sense
okay, this thread is not for you to get piss off!
i thought i should share n i need feedbacks from u too
and again i am a shamanist i still follow with my parents and i respect that... so dont ask me why or how i get converted ok? its part of my personal belief. you cant understand
again I am beginner only so i still have a long way to go through.
if there is something i have said wrong, let me know and reply it nicely. or else i will be ignoring your response.
 

mokka

sarNie Adult
Wow, you seemed to dislike Shamanism a lot...

to answer your question in my opinion, I believe in shaman/spirit (or demons as you call them) because I was taught to. I am a shaman and I am proud of it. I've never experience being sick like you with many ua neeg so I can't really say about those stuff. I also don't believe that all spirits (demon) are bad. I believed that there are some good ones and at the same time some bad ones too. I believed that all the spirits such as xwm kab and dag thaiv vaj tse any spirits that my parents call upon during the new year are good spirits and as a follower, we should treat them well.

Recently my mom got very sick. The doctor said that she will not live pass six months... At that time it was very hard for me and my siblings and we always asked my dad to ask people to ua neeg. At the end, he asked my aunt's father in law who came and said that the dag by the front door is upset therefore it did not do it's duty of protecting the family. In order for my mom to get well and to, we need to fix that... And my parents did... My mom got better. A lot of our relatives did say that compared to when my mom was at the hospital when she was sick and now, she looked so much better and alive... So with that experience, I do believe that they are good as long as you take care of them.

How I was taught and read from an article I found online about Hmong religion, when someone die in that person goes back to where their ancestors are and unite with their parents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc.

With that say, I have NOTHING against Christianity. When I started college, I did go to bible study with my friends and I do believe that the teaching of Christianity are good. At one point in my college career, I did devote myself into learning about 'God' and his way of teaching and I truly believe that by believing in him, you can become a better person. AT the end, regardless if you are a better or not, it depends on your personality.

Regarding to this: cov neeg coj zoo thiab ua zoo yuav tau ntuj ntoo thiab mus cuag ntuj ceeb tsheej hos cov ua coj phem thiab tais ntuj yuav poob mus rau ntuj tsaus

In my opinion, in the Christianity way, I see it as, it would be if you believed in God then you will go to heaven to be with him. If you don't believe in him then you will go to hell.

But in the Shaman way, it is pretty much karma. That is the one word that would use to describe that sentence.

Lastly: which religions have a better option in life?
Both of them have good teaching to better way of life. I do believe in that. It really depends on your own personal belief. I am a shaman follower, but I do take the passages from the bible as life teaching passage at the same time taking some from the shaman believe.

So this is my option on both religions.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
I absolutely dislike it, actually hate it when Shamanism (the religion is actually called Animist) is labeled as demons/devils! We worship & pay respect to our ancestors & to those that protect our homes. Question, so if your grandma dies & a shaman hlawv xyab hlawv ntawv mus rau koj pog, are you calling your grandma a demon just because she past? As far as I know, demons appear in almost, if not all religions. Why do you think EVERYONE is afraid of ghost??

But really, this debate over Shaman & God will never have an end.

However, it's Shamanism & will always be Shamanism for me! I mean if someone chooses to believe & worship stories from a book (bible) that's been revised over three times (by humans or what do they themselves...messagers, preachers), then let it be. Note: I learned this from my humanities course on religions. Whatever makes them happy.

A little history: Hmong people NEVER knew of god. At One point, We all believed in Shamans. During hard times (wars), Hmong people were desperate for relief. Thus, missionaries sought the perfect opportunity to convert Hmong people who wanted to flead economic hardship & fear of persecution. To receive help, they must convert to Christianity.

Christianity; If you murder someone, god will forgive you. If you rape a child, god will forgive you. If you commit adultry, god will forgive you. Blah blah blah...Shamanism: ntuj npam nawb!

If I did believe in god, this is what I would believe. God is the creator of everything, right. He created Satan. Satan = sin. Therefore, God created this whole mess & sends his son to fix the mess. Apparently, his son's not doing a very job cause the world is all F'ed up! Jesus died for me? No, he died trying to clean up his father's mess. God loves me, but if I don't listen to him then, to hell is where I'm headed.
 

roselovesice

방탄소년단 x Bangtan Sonyeondan x JiTaew
Come on people....i'm sorry but come on.
Please respect one another's religion.
I'm a Christian and i think religion is not meant to be discussed really online...
since many are born and raised differently...different beliefs and background..
people will be offended by what is said..
Ceda_lee, don't say that, please? i respect you for what you believe in but please don't say that sentence at the end.

Honestly, i was once born and raised as a Shaman but that didn't help me at all.
Now that i have been a Christian for awhile, i'm really grateful to have turned that way :D
Can we all just appreciate one another for whatever we are.
things will change..just wait. :)
I'm not here to start anything...
i'm here to state my opinion also in the same way you are as well.
 

SFL

sarNie Egg
nkaujhmoob08: zoo siab tias koj tsis muaj mob lawm thiab koj yuav tsis txawj ua neeb vim nws yog ib yam txhau luag rau koj heev li. Txawm tias koj tsis coj dab lawm los thov tsis txhob thuam tha lais peb txoj kev ntseeg ua peb pog tau ua cia yawm tau ua tseg. Tseem koj tseeg chritianity lawm los kuj zoo rau koj tab sis nco ntsoov tias koj cov "demon" thiab peb cov "demon" txawv deb.

"i always hear this from the OG "cov neeg coj zoo thiab ua zoo yuav tau ntuj ntoo thiab mus cuag ntuj ceeb tsheej hos cov ua coj phem thiab tais ntuj yuav poob mus rau ntuj tsaus" and i do not understand the meaning of this. its kinda of confusing, very hard to picturize too. i need more details."-----it means that a good person will go to heaven and a bad will go to hell.

ceda_lee: "Christianity; If you murder someone, god will forgive you. If you rape a child, god will forgive you. If you commit adultry, god will forgive you. Blah blah blah...Shamanism: ntuj npam nawb!"

----Yog lawm!


roselovesice: You were def. not raised as a shaman and you can't be a shaman unless dab neeg (shamanic spirits) los thawj koj. I think you mean to say that you were animist and now a christian.
 

princess87

sarNie Egg
nkaujhmoob08: You really need to research on shamanism before you claim to know what it really is or make any kind of assumptions about it. Don't say such things about other people's religion. That's just rude and very disrespectful. If you want to discuss religion, be more mature and discuss it in a more mannerly way.

Discussing religion isn't something to be taken lightly, it's something that can be very personal to others more than some. Saying something like what you wrote can deeply offend people who still follow the shamanism way. Please be more considerate the next time you decide to rant on such topics.
 

roselovesice

방탄소년단 x Bangtan Sonyeondan x JiTaew
SFL, no i'm positively sure i was raised as a shaman. i decided to convert myself into a Christian.
I just couldn't take the old way anymore and decided to choose a different path and make a change in life...a better change.
An animist? not so sure....

My parents still follow the old ways...they're not christians.
I'm pretty sure that if you have hmong parents, most of the time they'll be born and raised as a shaman.
 

YM_gurl

sarNie Oldmaid
Doesn't matter what you dislike or like. what you believe and don't believe because at the end. We all believe in One. :)

by the way, you seem to be immature about this topic.

You kept saying:
-"you heard this and that."

You need to see it with your own eyes and speak for yourself and not tell us what people told you.

Shamanism is spiritual healing, you don't have to believe in it. If you don't want to. No one is making you.
I believe in shamanism and I am offended. Respect people's religion.
I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I was to go on with God and say negative things. Would you? I didn't think so.

On the other hand, you got sick because you are going to be a shaman?
That happens, you are the chosen one. Better keep praying or do something about it because the sickness is going to come back someday. Especially in the long run when you are old.

How do i know? I've seen it my family. And tell me if im wrong, your family believes in Shamanism and you believe in God?
How did that happened? LOL I mean, if you got married and converted. Sure. You believe in what you want, but don't diss your family's religion. Have some respect.
 

kazz143

sarNie Juvenile
i think if ur christian then u'll reckon the christian way of life is better buh den if ur shamanism den u'll think the shamanism way of life is better....it just depends on how u were brought up....buh i dnt get how people who believe in shamanism want to be christian so bad....like ceda lee said hmong never knew what god was.....and my cousin told me he read some thread on some hmong website about how hmong teens getting sick because they wanted to believe in christian but their parents was shamanism....since they werent faithful to their spirits or sumfing.....

and i dnt want to be rude here buh i find it funny when a christian guy marries a girl whose beliefs is shamanism and since christian are not allow to 'pes' on ur knees at the wedding, they have to do it if they want to marry the girl.....
 

pangnerlicious

sarNie Adult
hmmm..im Shamanism..theres nuthing wrong with that..
and plus..i think it helps your more..and its more protective.
i do believe in God somewhat. and i do believe that God is everywhere.
but religious is religious, there nuthing wrong with it
it only depends of wat help and protect you the best.
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
Wow, you seemed to dislike Shamanism a lot...

to answer your question in my opinion, I believe in shaman/spirit (or demons as you call them) because I was taught to. I am a shaman and I am proud of it. I've never experience being sick like you with many ua neeg so I can't really say about those stuff. I also don't believe that all spirits (demon) are bad. I believed that there are some good ones and at the same time some bad ones too. I believed that all the spirits such as xwm kab and dag thaiv vaj tse any spirits that my parents call upon during the new year are good spirits and as a follower, we should treat them well.

Recently my mom got very sick. The doctor said that she will not live pass six months... At that time it was very hard for me and my siblings and we always asked my dad to ask people to ua neeg. At the end, he asked my aunt's father in law who came and said that the dag by the front door is upset therefore it did not do it's duty of protecting the family. In order for my mom to get well and to, we need to fix that... And my parents did... My mom got better. A lot of our relatives did say that compared to when my mom was at the hospital when she was sick and now, she looked so much better and alive... So with that experience, I do believe that they are good as long as you take care of them.

How I was taught and read from an article I found online about Hmong religion, when someone die in that person goes back to where their ancestors are and unite with their parents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc.

With that say, I have NOTHING against Christianity. When I started college, I did go to bible study with my friends and I do believe that the teaching of Christianity are good. At one point in my college career, I did devote myself into learning about 'God' and his way of teaching and I truly believe that by believing in him, you can become a better person. AT the end, regardless if you are a better or not, it depends on your personality.

Regarding to this: cov neeg coj zoo thiab ua zoo yuav tau ntuj ntoo thiab mus cuag ntuj ceeb tsheej hos cov ua coj phem thiab tais ntuj yuav poob mus rau ntuj tsaus

In my opinion, in the Christianity way, I see it as, it would be if you believed in God then you will go to heaven to be with him. If you don't believe in him then you will go to hell.

But in the Shaman way, it is pretty much karma. That is the one word that would use to describe that sentence.

Lastly: which religions have a better option in life?
Both of them have good teaching to better way of life. I do believe in that. It really depends on your own personal belief. I am a shaman follower, but I do take the passages from the bible as life teaching passage at the same time taking some from the shaman believe.

So this is my option on both religions.
I didn't said I dislike Shamanist. There's nothing wrong if i care or not. Yes, you are lucky that you don't have that kind of sickness I had. My sickness is natural it just that it took too long to be cure.

I'm happy that your mom is okay now. And way before that you said the front dab thaiv qhov rooj was upset about your mom so you guys have to ua neeb kho nws. Hmmm..see, this is what bothering me (my opinion) when they want food or something from you, they make you go ill. =(
 

SFL

sarNie Egg
SFL, no i'm positively sure i was raised as a shaman. i decided to convert myself into a Christian.
I just couldn't take the old way anymore and decided to choose a different path and make a change in life...a better change.
An animist? not so sure....

My parents still follow the old ways...they're not christians.
I'm pretty sure that if you have hmong parents, most of the time they'll be born and raised as a shaman.
So before you converted you were a shaman which means you go into trance and travel to the spirit world when asked by members of the Hmong community to heal and cure an illness? Shamans are very well respected and it's rare to hear a shaman convert over to a Chrisitian. Shamanism is beliefs and practicess in regards to communicating with the spirit world. Animism is the belief that humans, animals, plants, etc all have a soul or spirit and sometimes these spirits are malnavolent causing someone ill thus a shaman, a practioner of shamanism, is needed to heal the illness.

My parents and I still follow the old way, the animistic way.
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
I absolutely dislike it, actually hate it when Shamanism (the religion is actually called Animist) is labeled as demons/devils! We worship & pay respect to our ancestors & to those that protect our homes. Question, so if your grandma dies & a shaman hlawv xyab hlawv ntawv mus rau koj pog, are you calling your grandma a demon just because she past? As far as I know, demons appear in almost, if not all religions. Why do you think EVERYONE is afraid of ghost??

But really, this debate over Shaman & God will never have an end.

However, it's Shamanism & will always be Shamanism for me! I mean if someone chooses to believe & worship stories from a book (bible) that's been revised over three times (by humans or what do they themselves...messagers, preachers), then let it be. Note: I learned this from my humanities course on religions. Whatever makes them happy.

A little history: Hmong people NEVER knew of god. At One point, We all believed in Shamans. During hard times (wars), Hmong people were desperate for relief. Thus, missionaries sought the perfect opportunity to convert Hmong people who wanted to flead economic hardship & fear of persecution. To receive help, they must convert to Christianity.

Christianity; If you murder someone, god will forgive you. If you rape a child, god will forgive you. If you commit adultry, god will forgive you. Blah blah blah...Shamanism: ntuj npam nawb!

If I did believe in god, this is what I would believe. God is the creator of everything, right. He created Satan. Satan = sin. Therefore, God created this whole mess & sends his son to fix the mess. Apparently, his son's not doing a very job cause the world is all F'ed up! Jesus died for me? No, he died trying to clean up his father's mess. God loves me, but if I don't listen to him then, to hell is where I'm headed.
I don't call people pass away that are close to me is demon LMAO! Demon is demon..i dont know why you brought demons up to cover up your lines. =)
I am a beginner only so i dont know much about this..well yeah if we talk about this is going to be forever like never ends.
and i disagreed with some of your statement above..its kinda rude in a way ..i gotta do my research before i make any comeback to that statement...
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
If I offend anymore, so be it. I was offended first. This is a very sensitive subject to me especially if starts out with dissing/bashing my religion.
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
nkaujhmoob08: You really need to research on shamanism before you claim to know what it really is or make any kind of assumptions about it. Don't say such things about other people's religion. That's just rude and very disrespectful. If you want to discuss religion, be more mature and discuss it in a more mannerly way.

Discussing religion isn't something to be taken lightly, it's something that can be very personal to others more than some. Saying something like what you wrote can deeply offend people who still follow the shamanism way. Please be more considerate the next time you decide to rant on such topics.
How is it rude when im just stating about my experience?? i see nothing wrong with it.
I still respect Shaman yes but my belief is somewhere else. =)
i didn't said i know very well about this and i did request for more details =) but this topic is getting offended lol ..not to you but maybe to other. i unno
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
If I offend anymore, so be it. I was offended first. This is a very sensitive subject to me especially if starts out with dissing/bashing my religion.
lol how is it insulting you when im just stating my personal experience? At least i didnt say anything much to offend shamanist.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Nkaujhmoob08...you wrote you heard that Shiv Yis is the demin's brother. I pretty Much pick up from what you were implying. Shiv yog tus coj Ntawm cov txiv neej. Shiv yim is Shamanism. If he and the demon are brothers, doesn't that Make him a demon too? And everybody who believes in Shiv Yim's teachings, does that make us demons too? From what you've heard, we worship demons.

You started Out very rude on a very touchy topic. How do you expect people to respond nicely. How were you being rude? Exactly the same way you thought I was being rude. You being under assumption that we worship demons is enough for me to diss evrything you say after that. Clearly, you know nothing.

Why do we believe in shamans/demons? We don't believe in demons you dummy! Shamans are not demons either. My dad is a Shaman and you're calling him a demon. I am very offended.
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
Doesn't matter what you dislike or like. what you believe and don't believe because at the end. We all believe in One. :)

by the way, you seem to be immature about this topic.

You kept saying:
-"you heard this and that."

You need to see it with your own eyes and speak for yourself and not tell us what people told you.

Shamanism is spiritual healing, you don't have to believe in it. If you don't want to. No one is making you.
I believe in shamanism and I am offended. Respect people's religion.
I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I was to go on with God and say negative things. Would you? I didn't think so.

On the other hand, you got sick because you are going to be a shaman?
That happens, you are the chosen one. Better keep praying or do something about it because the sickness is going to come back someday. Especially in the long run when you are old.

How do i know? I've seen it my family. And tell me if im wrong, your family believes in Shamanism and you believe in God?
How did that happened? LOL I mean, if you got married and converted. Sure. You believe in what you want, but don't diss your family's religion. Have some respect.
When i said "hearing" it was a general sample. That doesn't mean i agree with it or not.
And about my sickness, the shaman once stated that I am going to be one. LMAO! That is an interpretation. Why would I care? Does it matter? Everything is depending on how you think. My belief helps me strong this is why I stick with god. Like i said interpretation is fake but can be harmful if you fall for it. =) i didnt fall so im happy of what i am now.
i am respecting my family's religion, i never say on such a thing.
I am safe because I have chosen a better path. If I haven't known about god, i would've become worse or a shaman already LMAO! see? Thanks to god for giving me option.
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
Nkaujhmoob08...you wrote you heard that Shiv Yis is the demin's brother. I pretty Much pick up from what you were implying. Shiv yog tus coj Ntawm cov txiv neej. Shiv yim is Shamanism. If he and the demon are brothers, doesn't that Make him a demon too? And everybody who believes in Shiv Yim's teachings, does that make us demons too? From what you've heard, we worship demons.

You started Out very rude on a very touchy topic. How do you expect people to respond nicely. How were you being rude? Exactly the same way you thought I was being rude. You being under assumption that we worship demons is enough for me to diss evrything you say after that. Clearly, you know nothing.

Why do we believe in shamans/demons? We don't believe in demons you dummy! Shamans are not demons either. My dad is a Shaman and you're calling him a demon. I am very offended.
Shaman/demons? (/) means or
I didn't said they are one person either.
Sorry if you are offended.
 

mongstaness

sarNie Adult
ummm. im going to have to correct you all, because shamanism isn't really a term that used for when it comes to hmong religion. although we have shamans and have gotten used to the term "shamanism," it does not exist and isn't a real word.

the correct term for what we hmong we actually practice is "Animism."

but yes, please do carry on this conversation. i just wanted to inform you all so that you all will know later on when someone corrects you.
 
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