Shamanism & Christianism

[Theist23]

this is indeed a very touchy subject...

@yeng in what I mean that we all believe in the same thing is that we all want happiness whether a person choose the path of Christianity or Animism, etc they are satisfy with their beliefs and it's a person own desicion at how their life turns out. Often times we have people who convert back and forth and these people by the end of the day make a desicion to believe in things that are passed through thousands of years by families and friend. Just like how you believe in GOD, we believe in our ancestors. What makes it that we are walking the wrong path? From the things you write it seems like you're trying to prove us wrong that our way of thinking is not the right way. I appriciate your opinion, and yes the things you say are just OPINIONS too even if they are quoted by the bible or in written documents. You can't give us a written document and say it's valid and proof. thousands of years have passed already and those documents might have been changed but I don't know and you might not either so you choose to BELIEVE in what the Bible says and I choose to take it with a grain of salt. I've never read the Bible before and I probably will only glance at it throughout the future...it's not that I disrespect it, that's just how I feel...

In the end it's the things that we learn that shape who we are I guess...I don't even know if I make sense. lol



ok so that was pretty offensive...I'm trying not to sound mean and as civil as possible...so I'll be the better man...seeing from the things you wrote you wouldn't like it if people go "Christianity WTF is that? ha ha ha!" would you...ok I just lost track at what I was saying...anyways looking down on a religion and thinking you're all high and mightly just because your a Christian is pretty low...gotta admit that...and it doesn't make you or your belief look any better, but I guess the same thing can go for what I said right? in the end we all go round in full circle. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe and the world still goes round. Life still goes on, it has for centuries even when the Bible wasn't even created yet, even when Animism wasn't created yet...

OMG I feel like I'm attacking and I don't like to do that so I'll just keep it short and breathe a little...I guess I'll be back for more since I have a feeling people might respond back...it's pretty interesting and keeps me thinking...

peace out yo!

God exists and therefore, worshiping your ancestors and offerings to spirits of the dead is forbidden. Do you know why we do that? I am speaking in general here… We do that because we believe that the spirits lives on and thus bringing good fortunes to us whenever we perform good deeds, we appease them by gaining their favor. Where were you when God laid the foundation of the earth? You make your ancestor your gods rather worshiping the true God who created everything. Ancestor worship is paganism that are founded on the Natives American religion even before the time of Christ and especially since the fall of man… This go back as far as Genesis (Thaum Chivkeeb). It is wrong because it goes against the will of God as such.

Why do you assume the bible has been changed? I am sure you have not look into the evidence. One cannot make that assertion. Do you have evidence for your claim? Historian uses a bibliographical test to determine the reliability of the copies we have today. They not only drew evidence internally, but also apply external evidence and how other contemporary sources aligns with the facts. Come on now… The bible stand alone as best preserved works among all antiguity. Go to Amman, Jordan inside the Archaeological Museum they have all kinds of proof for you. LOL! They pretty much verify the bible. Well well well, at the end of the day one can choose to believe anyway they want. However, that doesn’t dismiss the evidence. Almost every one heard of Christianity. I don’t think they would go WTF wouldn’t they? Now if you ask an American what Shamanism is, they’ll go WTF! LOL! Accept your own truth son. H ah aha! Life would’nt still go around if it wouldn’t be by the grace of God. You’d better be thankful he didn’t flood this generation. You should read the bible with an open mind.

 

[ceda_lee]

Question...where is the original manuscript? Why haven't we seen it? The bible didn't even exist In Jesus's time. It was written by his followers, MEN, which I believe it was centuries after Jesus lived. One of the Many controversies focuses on how many times the bible has been changed & the accuracy of the many languages it has been translated into. If all bibles are copies from other copies, what makes you think those are the true words of God? Men supposedly copied them from the original. Therefore, they're subjected to manipulation & can easily be tampered with.

Why is Christianity so popular? It is the mainstream influence. Going back in Hmong history in ancient China, where was God? God didn't exist. God played no part in our beliefs, our values, our lives. It wasn't even until the wars in southeast asia, when westerners & Europeans introduced Christianity to the Hmongs. All of sudden, God is Creator of all??? Even in Greek history, when Greek invaded the middle east & supposedly stole the original manuscripts/literatures & tranlsated them. It's people became followers, followers of something that was foreign to them.

My turn to see the doctor...BRB hehe

 

[kaab nis]

you keep on saying that what we believe in goes against GOD but wouldn't GOD want us to be happy even if we don't believe in him or even if we choose to worship something else that is not him? I mean your making him sound unjust...your making Christians sound arrogant, like it's either our way or no way...why can't people just accept the fact that not everybody thinks the same way...goodness...you can preach all you want but I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt and I'm pretty sure you're doing the same thing with me too...

LMAO!!! maybe I should have said "I'll be the better woman" cuz I'm a girl not a "son"

let me ask you, "How are YOU so sure it hasn't been changed?" like what ceda_lee said, the bible has been changed into so many languages, it has gone through so many centuries, even before when they're was no writing, so how are YOU so sure that what you're reading right now is the real deal? the actual word for word of what was written so many years ago?

what aggitate me is that YOU make it sound like you know what GOD wants, what GOD intends, what GOD thinks is right, what GOD believes, but by the end of the day I doubt YOU really know anything about GOD...so please save your preaching...it gets tiring...

this is an endless cycle...

 

[Theist23]

Question...where is the original manuscript? Why haven't we seen it? The bible didn't even exist In Jesus's time. It was written by his followers, MEN, which I believe it was centuries after Jesus lived. One of the Many controversies focuses on how many times the bible has been changed & the accuracy of the many languages it has been translated into. If all bibles are copies from other copies, what makes you think those are the true words of God? Men supposedly copied them from the original. Therefore, they're subjected to manipulation & can easily be tampered with.

Why is Christianity so popular? It is the mainstream influence. Going back in Hmong history in ancient China, where was God? God didn't exist. God played no part in our beliefs, our values, our lives. It wasn't even until the wars in southeast asia, when westerners & Europeans introduced Christianity to the Hmongs. All of sudden, God is Creator of all??? Even in Greek history, when Greek invaded the middle east & supposedly stole the original manuscripts/literatures & tranlsated them. It's people became followers, followers of something that was foreign to them.

My turn to see the doctor...BRB hehe

The bible was translated from the original autographs, but it has not been interpolated. Listen to the experts who study it. Don’t listen to people who don’t know anything about it, that is not a very good idea. Take for example, the KJ version are translations that derived from the Hebrew Masoretic and Textus Receptus. Bibles today are not translation from other interpretations - they go right back to the ancient manuscripts. The differences between today’s translation is how word for word are interpret from the original text. Historians uses textual criticism by comparing existing manuscripts and then easily reconstruct the word or sentence. In regards to this, we have almost complete certainty of what the original says. The OT were written over a period of 1,600 years even before we even got the NT. NT is fulfillment of OT historically. They’re all written between 40AD-70AD ( 1st century gospels) shortly after Christ resurrection between 30AD-33AD.

You have not seen it because you’re not searching for it. Go to the store and buy one DUH! You want more evidence… We have the Dead Sea Scrolls which is very reliable and pretty much make up the whole bible.. They’re also located in Jerusalem inside the “Shrine of the book” museum.

So, you asked where was God when God had no part in the Chinese beliefs? God was always there. No one was seeking Him. How could you say God didn't exist based on the history of China? That is a seperate issues hunny. It has no bearing on whether God exist or not. That doesn’t even refute my arguments. Failed!!!

God has always been the Creator. I assume you do not believe in God, so now how would you account the fact that you’re here? Cosmic accident yeh? Ha ha ha! God have made of one blood all nations of men and women for to dwell on all the face of the earth. Everybody who lives before the time of Christ, life was already running on its course.. Just that God has appointed a specific time to sent His Son and called everybody to repent. So the gospel went forth, and it is still going forth today. Then the end will come and the world will be judge. From Genesis to Revelation, that's how to take everything into context and reconcile it to history.

 

[Theist23]

you keep on saying that what we believe in goes against GOD but wouldn't GOD want us to be happy even if we don't believe in him or even if we choose to worship something else that is not him? I mean your making him sound unjust...your making Christians sound arrogant, like it's either our way or no way...why can't people just accept the fact that not everybody thinks the same way...goodness...you can preach all you want but I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt and I'm pretty sure you're doing the same thing with me too...

LMAO!!! maybe I should have said "I'll be the better woman" cuz I'm a girl not a "son"

God is always just. Why would it not be just to worship God rather than the creation? Are you God? Do you also claim to be the almighty? Dab Ntxwgnyoog also want to be the almighty and God stomped him.

let me ask you, "How are YOU so sure it hasn't been changed?" like what ceda_lee said, the bible has been changed into so many languages, it has gone through so many centuries, even before when they're was no writing, so how are YOU so sure that what you're reading right now is the real deal? the actual word for word of what was written so many years ago?

what aggitate me is that YOU make it sound like you know what GOD wants, what GOD intends, what GOD thinks is right, what GOD believes, but by the end of the day I doubt YOU really know anything about GOD...so please save your preaching...it gets tiring...

this is an endless cycle...

I am sure. There are experts who study this area and more knowledgeable than us. Dab Ntxwgnyoog also believes too, Koj tsi paub Vaajtswv txog lus lod? You are unsure because you yourself just saids it - You’re an unbeliever that’s why. I still see no evidence why people should not believe in God. I think there are good reasons to believe in God, which i already provide in my earlier post. Now... What if you're wrong and God does exists..... you lose everything. If God doesnt exists, then fine i have nothing to lose we're both equal. Might as well go party. So why not believe it anyway? LOL!

 

[lil_caeser]

okay will you say that shaminism is a bad thing and that the demons are out to get you but i don't see how that is true. i myself was a shamin and i have never seen any superstition thing like ghost or demons in my home or anything happen to my family. you know all those thing only happen to you when you believe it. your family can be shamin but it doesn't mean that you have to believe in all of that. i was shamin but then i never once believed in that ghost thing and demons and nothing has ever happened to me. But now that i am married i have converted to be christian and there is nothing superstition about converting. i think that it is all in everyones mind, with me i feel that i have to be able to witness superstition things like ghost and demons to believe it. to me i think that it's not real unless you believe that it is. it's not so bad being shamin. it's only bad when you think about it. being shamin isn't so bad it's just the fact that you have to clean and cook and know how to become a good daughter in law once you marry but then again that is if you marry into a shamin family. it's hard to say the same for a christian family. don't take any of this to heart but that's how i feel with the whole thing. i think that everyone has there opinion but its not really anyones place to pick and bad mouth other religion. everyone has there own thoughts and feeling so it's not anyones place to badmouth anyones religion.

 

[ceda_lee]

I don't go searching for it because there is NO proof that those are the words of God. All the studies trace back to what I said earlier. They were all written by men. You claim God is everywhere. My point was, historically speaking, we never knew of God. How could we go searching for something that didn't exist to us? I'm not searching for something I don't believe in. I made it very clear, those are words of men. How true is the Dead Sea scroll? Again, those scripts are made from men themselves. What scholars studied are based on claims & that is why Christianity is not accepted by all. You'll just have to face it. It is what it is. Christians have the internal drive to go out there & prove that theirs is best, whereas the rest of the world don't question their religion. Why? Because of the inconsistencies & controversies they have created upon themselves.

 

[Theist23]

I don't go searching for it because there is NO proof that those are the words of God. All the studies trace back to what I said earlier. They were all written by men. You claim God is everywhere. My point was, historically speaking, we never knew of God. How could we go searching for something that didn't exist to us? I'm not searching for something I don't believe in. I made it very clear, those are words of men. How true is the Dead Sea scroll? Again, those scripts are made from men themselves. What scholars studied are based on claims & that is why Christianity is not accepted by all. You'll just have to face it. It is what it is. Christians have the internal drive to go out there & prove that theirs is best, whereas the rest of the world don't question their religion. Why? Because of the inconsistencies & controversies they have created upon themselves.

So you already made up your mind. That is not how one approach the bible or anything at all. Historicity and researched data is evidence - not ignorance. There are accepted data that we can use from the authoritative stance from skeptics, scholars or even theologians, and we can still build a strong case for the resurrection. I am sorry but you are mistaken sweety. Christianity is accepted as universal truth, and of course it is not accepted by ALL. Not all people are Hmong anyway what do you expect? I dont know where you are going with this. But thanks for debate anyway. Jesus died for your sins and you can be saved if you accept him into your heart right now.

 

[aikoden]

aiyah..... this will keep continuin >_<...

ceda_lee .. not all christians do that only some.. i for example respect others' religions & beliefs & wouldn't dare convert others' to become christians..

yeng.. i understand you're for christianity but.. u shouldn't go forcing others'/converting them to become christians. it's a matter of opinion & choice for them to decide..

this is why there's war.. it's due to religious matters.. that's y there's no peace in the world....

why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends.... XD

 

[kaab nis]

okay will you say that shaminism is a bad thing and that the demons are out to get you but i don't see how that is true. i myself was a shamin and i have never seen any superstition thing like ghost or demons in my home or anything happen to my family. you know all those thing only happen to you when you believe it. your family can be shamin but it doesn't mean that you have to believe in all of that. i was shamin but then i never once believed in that ghost thing and demons and nothing has ever happened to me. But now that i am married i have converted to be christian and there is nothing superstition about converting. i think that it is all in everyones mind, with me i feel that i have to be able to witness superstition things like ghost and demons to believe it. to me i think that it's not real unless you believe that it is. it's not so bad being shamin. it's only bad when you think about it. being shamin isn't so bad it's just the fact that you have to clean and cook and know how to become a good daughter in law once you marry but then again that is if you marry into a shamin family. it's hard to say the same for a christian family. don't take any of this to heart but that's how i feel with the whole thing. i think that everyone has there opinion but its not really anyones place to pick and bad mouth other religion. everyone has there own thoughts and feeling so it's not anyones place to badmouth anyones religion.

Thank you...that brings me back to my first post...that no matter what by the end of the day we all believe in the same thing...we all want the same thing...happiness...a way in living life...you know...

Jesus died for your sins and you can be saved if you accept him into your heart right now.

you see this is what I don't get...me be save from what? myself? it's ok...I'll just live my life like I've always have and I have no problem with it...

aikoden thank you...I'll be your friend...I came in here neutral but got side tracked...lol...hope my earlier posts did not offend anyone...

I am sure. There are experts who study this area and more knowledgeable than us. Dab Ntxwgnyoog also believes too, Koj tsi paub Vaajtswv txog lus lod? You are unsure because you yourself just saids it - You’re an unbeliever that’s why. I still see no evidence why people should not believe in God. I think there are good reasons to believe in God, which i already provide in my earlier post. Now... What if you're wrong and God does exists..... you lose everything. If God doesnt exists, then fine i have nothing to lose we're both equal. Might as well go party. So why not believe it anyway? LOL!

no I don't think I would lose anything at all...hahaha...

peace out!

 

[Theist23]

you see this is what I don't get...me be save from what? myself? it's ok...I'll just live my life like I've always have and I have no problem with it...

Exactly! You are self righteous. Read the gospel of Luke 15:1-7. Jesus is speaking concerning the one sheep that was lost. The Shepherd left the 99 sheep behind and search for the one lost sheep until he finds it. He then rejoice over the one lost sheep. Tell me why do you think Jesus came into this world? You'll find the answer to your own question if you would just read.

no I don't think I would lose anything at all...hahaha...

peace out!

You sure? If you wish to hold on to your life, you will lose it. Btw, im not converting you. Im just educating you atm. And i have the right to defend what i believe too. Not converting anybody nope..

 

[annae]

Jesus died for your sins and you can be saved if you accept him into your heart right now.

you're saying...if you murder people one after another ...god will forgive your sins...and be your savor...'

this is the kind of excuses they come up with... "i can do anything good or bad, it doesn't matter because god will forgive me"....what a joke!


no offense to anybody...just saying...

 

[Theist23]

you're saying...if you murder people one after another ...god will forgive your sins...and be your savor...'

this is the kind of excuses they come up with... "i can do anything good or bad, it doesn't matter because god will forgive me"....what a joke!


no offense to anybody...just saying...

No, that is not correct. Is the fact that God in his wisdom trying to regulate sinful man, therefore God giving license to sinful man? God forbid! Let me illustrate this way:

The law does not want anybody to drive drunk. But knowing man's depravity and will transgress; has law in place so that when a man does drive drunk, the law punishes those who abuse drunk driving. In other words, when a sinner sin against a holy and infinite God the wages is infinite. Jesus Christ, Son of God died to pay off the debt a sinner owed to God on the cross. A sinner put his faith in Jesus Christ and God charges his sins into Christ account. The sinner then becomes justify and appear right before God. Now what you're saying is that you can play God out of it and that is hypocritical. You may get away from man but not with God you cant. God knows the heart of every man. Does that make sense? Read Romans Paul tells you this.

 

[ceda_lee]

Yeng, you are contradicting yourself. How could Christianity be the universal truth when it is, in FACT, not accepted by all. There are so many religions out there. I'm not getting what you're trying to get at either.

So there's manmade laws & God's divine laws? O-yo...Blah blah blah...So basically a sinner walks away free.

FYI, I am fine just as I am. I appreciate you desperately trying to save everyone, all of us sinners & open our hearts to accept God's grace. Run to his embrace...um, no. Matter fact, I shall sacrifice a chicken for my grandpa for watching over me when I was in the ER today.

 

[Theist23]

Yeng, you are contradicting yourself. How could Christianity be the universal truth when it is, in FACT, not accepted by all. There are so many religions out there. I'm not getting what you're trying to get at either.

So there's manmade laws & God's divine laws? O-yo...Blah blah blah...So basically a sinner walks away free.

FYI, I am fine just as I am. I appreciate you desperately trying to save everyone, all of us sinners & open our hearts to accept God's grace. Run to his embrace...um, no. Matter fact, I shall sacrifice a chicken for my grandpa for watching over me when I was in the ER today.

In the Christian worldviews, universal truths derived from God. Whether it be statements, or things that are conceptual by nature. Take the concept of sin for example. Sin exists. People sin all the time. What i called sin you might call it wrong. However, you go to any culture and you apply Christian principles, just by it you could explain a lot of things you know that are wrong already base on the biblical glasses. In other words, Christianity have a moral basis of what is right and wrong, what is righteous and what is not. There is a Holy God, sinful man, salvation etc.. Do you lie? Do you cheat, steal etc.. These are universal truths. Christianity has answers to them. Creation, salvation and mankind etc..

Define religion for me?

 

[ceda_lee]

Yes, I agree there are universal truths. However, Christianity is not universal truth. Similar practices & beliefs evident in different religions does not mean they derived from Christianity. I believe you are very wrong on that.

Religion? Everybody knows what religion is. Are you asking for my personal definition?

Gosh, these days fundamentalist Christians and Jews are openly attacking other religious groups, just as you are doing. Must I state the reasons why? Or can you explain that without being ignorant of the controversies raised, the changes in the old & new testaments, the disagreements between the churches, the rise of modern Christianity???

 

[Theist23]

Yes, I agree there are universal truths. However, Christianity is not universal truth. Similar practices & beliefs evident in different religions does not mean they derived from Christianity. I believe you are very wrong on that.

Religion? Everybody knows what religion is. Are you asking for my personal definition?

Gosh, these days fundamentalist Christians and Jews are openly attacking other religious groups, just as you are doing. Must I state the reasons why? Or can you explain that without being ignorant of the controversies raised, the changes in the old & new testaments, the disagreements between the churches, the rise of modern Christianity???

Attacking other religious groups? Neither Jesus nor the gospel tells anyone to attack. I don't know what you're talking about other than the fact that there are disagreement? What about it? What are some of the changes and disagreement you think took place? That was all you said but you haven't explain them. I do want to know what they are. Also note, that it is a convenient thing to say if you do not know. So first, would you please be kind to tell me what the Jews and Christians believe about these controversies?

 

[tavang]

OMFG... all you "CHRISTIAN" need to stop hating the shaman peeps cuz we were all shaman until the french ppl came and introduce "GOD" to u ppl so just stop hating. if u truly believe in your own religion then you should respect other religion and STOP hating. you should all be proud of being SHAMAN or used to be shaman cuz that's what we hmong ppl really are so quit all the non sense and grow up.

 

[Theist23]

OMFG... all you "CHRISTIAN" need to stop hating the shaman peeps cuz we were all shaman until the french ppl came and introduce "GOD" to u ppl so just stop hating. if u truly believe in your own religion then you should respect other religion and STOP hating. you should all be proud of being SHAMAN or used to be shaman cuz that's what we hmong ppl really are so quit all the non sense and grow up.

I am not hating. The purpose of this thread is to educate both believers and non believers alike. In here we defend each of our own worldviews, arguing from historical and research data along with good reasons to the best explanation. I will be honest and try to do it sincerely as much as i can and being unbiased looking at all alternatives. Can you do that? Or, are you going to be like the tormented atheists who think he is right all the time figthing his way out of truth eh?

 

[ceda_lee]

Attacking other religious groups? Neither Jesus nor the gospel tells anyone to attack. I don't know what you're talking about other than the fact that there are disagreement? What about it? What are some of the changes and disagreement you think took place? That was all you said but you haven't explain them. I do want to know what they are. Also note, that it is a convenient thing to say if you do not know. So first, would you please be kind to tell me what the Jews and Christians believe about these controversies?

You do not know because to you Christianity is close to perfection, 99% accuracy. You've made up your mind already. That will be a little assignment for you then...research!!! I'm sure you KNOW the study of science raises questions, disagreements, etc. Controversies in the Bible/controversies in Christianity is actually a very popular subject. Don't believe me? Google it. I mean different Christian churches can't even agree with each other. Let's take the death penalty for an example. Most Evangelical religious leaders support it. However, other churches are against it. What I'm trying to say is, it's what the people in the churches are getting from their preachers. All preachers are supposedly God's messengers, yet they preach different things. They're taking what's in the Bible and reiterating in their own words, their own perspectives. How is any of that consistent with what really is in the Bible?

You are all for the pros and claims to know nothing about the cons of Christianity. Like I said, you've already made up your mind. I feel it is a waste of my time and everybody's time to educate you. You can say likewise about me. I just wanted to point out the discrepencies I've heard of and read about. I am not saying any of this because it is convenient to say. I am no expert in Bible studies or in any religious studies. I study humanitarian and different religious groups in a broad perspective. I do not know everything, but do pay attention to issues that are intriguing to me. Issues that you, a dedicated Christian might overlook.