What do you guys think about this case?

angelxtasy

sarNie Hatchling
In the Hmong culture although, I do not agree with how these mens decide
to wed such a young girl. The hmong older traditions does say its Okay.
If This man and his wife was marryd in Those days, I can see why the older
hmong generations are Angry about it. Its been many years already, in which
the wife is now bringing it out to say rape. Something that should have been done
years ago. Mostly i see it, It's a plot for revenge upon the man for now
marrying a second wife. Since now, in america Woman do have more rights.

However if she was forced marriage Here in america, without her consent.
I believe she does have every right to charge him in any way, cause they both
should already know the Laws of another Country.

To put it simply; THERE BOTH WRONG.

Wife: for selling out your husband or some1 you once called that. Whether
you did love him or not, HE's still the father of your Childen.
Husband: For marrying someone Years younger then you, and not realizing the
stupidity in that, there will be consequences. Yet!! you still want more Problems.

SAD but These kinda couples are everywhere Now.
Older generation needs to move on w/ the old traditions which we know dn't work.
Younger generation needs to Find a way to teach the elders responsibly.
 

D_D

sarNie Egg
Does everyone know that this case is still going on? This month, the jury and judge will decide he sentence, and if convicted, he will be in prision for 110 years.

Why are her parents getting away with this case? They should be charge with something as well. They sold her at the age of 12....CHARGE THEM WITH SOMETHING....KARMA IS A BITCH...DON'T THINK THAT ONCE YOU PUT SOMEONE IN PRISION, YOU ARE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT.
 

calla

sarNie Adult
omg..my bf is 35, and i 28 (never been married). we date for almost 3 years. i just found out that he keep on e-mail those ladies in laos. when i checked his fone..i always see hmong loas pix there. so i asked him...whats the different between us ladies here and the hmong laos ladies there ? so he was like hke only joke with them..nothing serious.
not too long ago...i found some fone cards in his car.. but he claimed that belong to his friends.
im starting not to trust him at all. we always argue about this stupid thing.


by the way.......somehow i feel sorry that guy who get 110 years in prison..but somehow..i think he deserved it lolz. this will be the lesson for the hmong men here.
 

s395299

sarNie Egg
How do you guys know that she's lying about getting raped?...nobody knows but them two...and at age 12...that's fucken sick...i just hate how the hmong parents back then and some now...(in america) let their daughters marry so young....they end up like this couple...divorced and angry...this guy deserved to be in jail but at the same time its not fair cuz so many hmong men has done this...

and the whole thing about old 60 plus years olds marrying little 15 16 year olds at laos makes me so freaken mad....this is the reason why the hmong people in laos don't respect the hmong people in america....they see us as some idiots that they can rip some many off of....let me tell you something those people over their always claiming that they're all poor and hungry but they are eating better that us and living better than us while living off of the money we send them...my parents just recently came back from laos and my aunts and cousins that claimed they were so poor were having party every damn day....those people over think we are made of money....seriously i'm sick of hmong laos people all they are good for is to rip off money from people...i don't even care if their my relatives....some of them have nice ass cars and motorcycles and cell phones....you don't need those things to survive in a third world country save your damn money for food....seriously i know i'm a little off topic here but every little thing they want to buy they call us for money...and im just sick of it...


i seriously want to knock some senes into these old farts...THEY ARE MARRYING YOU SO THEY COULD COME TO AMERICA!!! what don't these grandpa understand...you guys are ruining your families for some skinny money hungry hmong laos girls and you don't even know if they been screwing some other hmong or laos guys while you were gone...same thing goes to the grandma's that recently been screwing and ordering teenage hmong laos boys...still as sick as the old guys....hmong laos are nothing but money hungry people...they do anything and tell any lie to just get some money....

sorry if i offend anybody but this wasn't how i always viewed hmong laos people until recently
 

rukmos

sarNie Adult
I think that the woman wants to win the divorce battle and custody of any kids they had together. So if her story gets her sympathy from the judge and juries, then why not?

I think that the husband deserves what he's got coming. He cheated on her, is going to marry a young chick from Laos,and financially speaking with the way the economy is at right now, it'll be hard. Does the Laos chick have any education that will help the family and not rely on the husband/1st wife?

If I was in the 1st wife's shoes, I'd be piss off too. She wasted half of her good years with this man having his kids etc...

I'm Hmong and I like our traditions, but as a new age dawns upon us, we have to adapt and not dwell on the past. I'm not saying to forget our traditions, but there are better ways to go about it. I don't think that EVERY MAN who's ever kidnapped and raped his wife should be jailed because some of them still have good lives together and are happy.

I think that the tradition of kidnapping and raping a woman in the name of Marriage should be stopped. It's disgusting and degrading for women. Women are humans with feelings and don't deserve to be force to do anything they don't want. Of course, in the Developed countries, we don't really hear cases of Hmong women getting kidnapped or raped, but in the under-developed countries, I'm sure it's still going on.
 

beamsgirl

sarNie Adult
whether he kidnapped her or not, whether he raped her or not, whether she was forced to marry him or not, whatever happened in the bedroom I cannot speak for...
all I gotta say is that if she says that he raped her, and he forced her to marry him, then her parents should face the same sentence too...her parents and the elders who agreed to let them get married probably did everything according to culture, well he did too, kidnapping is a cultural thing that Hmong people do...if he can't get away with this excuse then so can't the parents...her parents sold her off when she was underage, he can rape her in private, or do whatever he wanted with her but he couldn't have forced the parents to let her marry him...
hope they decrease his sentence and hope this will be a lesson for all the Hmong people guy and girls who wants to marry WAY younger people and those who thinks that this is the way to solve something...what a disgrace to all the families and Hmong people as a whole, but people will never learn
 

Muddie Murda

smile...
Only uneducated people think what he did was justified. Who cares if she did it out of anger or revenge. That is a stupid counter argument. The issue is forced marriages and rape. If you are Hmong, you know that under aged forced marriages and under age cultural rape happens all the time. More Hmong than him should be arrested and if you are defending him, you're likely defending your own action, actions of those around you, or your own denial of how messed up Hmong marriage dynamics really are. The only way for us to start changing is for us to realized the wrongs and stand up for it so that it can start changing. Cultural pressure prohibits many from speaking out and we knew that the bubble was only going to get so big before it explode and becomes media.
I agree.

My eyes hurt so I didn't read the last few posts lol. My view on this is that they're in the US now. They HAVE to adapt to the laws and all. It's not an option! If they want to carry on their traditional of raping and force marriage, do it in their old country. All the comments of "she shouldn't have done that. Now she's the gossip of town AND her family. What a disgrace!" Um HELLO. I'm glad she's doing something to make her life better. Standing up for herself will show her OWN children and grandchildren not to take any BS and learn from her mistakes. That is the BEST FREAKING REVENGE EVER!

And YES, if all the women who were forced into marriage and are not happy now because their husbands are shitty, then divorce. If he was abusive, FILE LAW SUIT! They live in the US now and they should adapt to the laws. Tradition this and tradition that, sure. But if it's breaking the law, STOP.

The guy deserve 100% of it! Got tired of the "little girl" he married and went to find a new one. Don't tell me he didn't do that. What other business would he have in Laos? Visiting relatives only? Don't give me that BS.

Anyway, it's been so long. What's the result of this case? :D
 

mydeepscar

sarNie Egg
UPDATE on this CASE


Thaying Lor is lead into court for sentencing.Close A Milwaukee man convicted of sexually assaulting his wife, who was 12 when he abducted her into a Hmong cultural marriage in 1991, was sentenced Monday to at least eight years in prison.

The case of Thaying Lor, 43, drew nationwide attention among Hmong-Americans, who feared it could lead to unfair judgment of their culture and an upsurge in Hmong wives making similar claims years after their weddings.

Circuit Judge Kevin Martens, who presided at Lor's weeklong trial in December, called it one of the most difficult he'd seen, "given the number of issues I'm asked to consider on both sides."

Prosecutors and advocates for victims of domestic violence sought much tougher punishment, while Lor's counsel and Hmong-American groups and individuals who sent dozens of letters recommended probation.

The case began when a bailiff overheard the victim testify in her divorce early last year about how she was kidnapped, raped and essentially sold into marriage at age 12. The victim never wanted to involve police out of respect for the Hmong culture, but the bailiff alerted law enforcement and Lor was charged 10 days later.

The woman, now 32, has a different last name than Lor and is not being identified because she is the victim of a sexual assault. She remains in the Milwaukee area, where she is raising the couple's six children.

In a letter to Martens, she said she did not feel safe appearing in person because she and her family have been subjected to ridicule, ostracism and threats, including on Hmong radio stations.

"They have threatened to hunt me down like a squirrel in the woods," she wrote.

She asked that he sentence Lor to prison as a message to other abused Hmong women who lack the courage to come forward.

Martens spoke for 90 minutes Monday before announcing the sentence. He stressed repeatedly that case should not be seen as only "the Hmong marriage" case, but considered for Lor's specific behavior.

"It would be wrong for anyone to take this as an indictment of the Hmong community as a whole," he said.

The victim testified at trial that she came here from Laos in 1989. Two years later, when she was 12, Lor used the promise of a trip to the mall to lure her to a house where she was essentially kidnapped and raped. Later, they were wed at a Hmong marriage ceremony after negotiations among their family members. Her mother testified at Lor's trial that the girl's parents accepted a $3,000 dowry.

Lor's wife began having children while still in middle school, and Martens called it stunning that no intervention or referrals were done then.

"It's clear one or more people neglected their responsibilities," he said.

Martens noted that when Lor met his wife, both had been in the U.S. only about two years and marriage of such young girls was common in the old country. He also took into account that Lor had no other criminal record, provided for his family and was not a "quintessential predator."

But by 2005 and 2007, when Lor forcibly raped his wife and attempted to, ignorance of American law or custom could no longer be considered a mitigating factor, Martens said.

Lor was convicted of six charges, four under older state law and two under current law. For the initial assault, in 1991 when the victim was 12, Martens sentenced Lor to eight years. He would have to serve a minimum of two years before being considered for parole. He would have to be paroled after serving two-thirds of the sentence.

For sexual assaults that led to the birth of the couple's first three children, Martens imposed probation.

For a second-degree sexual assault in 2005, Lor was sentenced to four years, followed by eight years of extended supervision. For an attempted assault in 2007, he was given two years in prison plus four years of extended supervision. All the prison terms were consecutive, and Lor was given credit for 466 days he's been in jail since his arrest.

Lor's attorney, Benjamin Gallagher of St. Paul, Minn., said they planned to request a new trial and appeal if Martens denies the request.


Credit to JSMilwaukee news....http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/97313064.html
 

KhoOnxNouxWanxJai

Staff member
For those justifying this seriously? Like really? I know it may be a part of culture or whatever, but the marriage/rape happened in the US. If we remember correctly sex with a child is considered Child Molestation ... Statutory Rape. .... Sure the statue of limitations may be over for Molestation and Rape charges, but remember that the law in America is different then of that in Asia. I'm sure if all the people did what he did in America they would also get punished for it. What people aren't seeing is that he used his cultural laws on US soil. If the forced marriage/rape happened in their own respective country then more then likely the us law will not be able to intervene.

Also I can see that many people are saying that she may have been willing, but at the same time please respect those that choose to believe that she wasn't willing. I mean in my opinion she probably wasn't willing. She decided to hold her peace because she had respect for her culture and at age 12 she probably that what that man did was right.

Bottom line is in the US if you are an adult and have sexual relations with someone under the age of consent which now a days its like 17, but back then 18 you will be and should be punished by the law. Can you imagine if 20 guys used that tactic to get the women they want in the US? No woman would be safe. I'm not trying to bring down and diss any cultures, but I just don't understand how some people could tolerate being kidnapped and forced to married someone.

Also when someone is repeatedly raped by someone it causes them psychological problems that may cause them to fear reporting the attack. They can be psychologically manipulated by their attacker. So for those who thinks, "oh she should have told someone" you shouldn't say things like that if you've never walked a mile in their shoes.

I may or may not know if she was consenting but bottom line is she was 12 even if she did he should have known better.
 

Muddie Murda

smile...
I'm w/ you on that Tina!

Thanks for the update mydeepscar. The woman's word proves exactly why she didn't take action earlier. She knew her own people would turn against her. She was ridiculed and threatened from her OWN FREAKING HMONG PEOPLE. She's even bashed on the Hmong radio. Ya'll know that Hmong radio is as popular as Miley Cirus is to little girls. Out of respect for a freaking culture that nearly destroyed her life and out of fear, she kept quiet all these years.

Hmong people can't bear to see their own flaws laid out for the world to see, that's why they turn against anyone and everyone who takes a stand. The only good thing that came out of this was probably having the miracle of the kids. Dear Lord, I hope they don't have the same attitude as their freaking father.
 

KhoOnxNouxWanxJai

Staff member
mydeepscar[/b]. The woman's word proves exactly why she didn't take action earlier. She knew her own people would turn against her. She was ridiculed and threatened from her OWN FREAKING HMONG PEOPLE. She's even bashed on the Hmong radio. Ya'll know that Hmong radio is as popular as Miley Cirus is to little girls. Out of respect for a freaking culture that nearly destroyed her life and out of fear, she kept quiet all these years.

Hmong people can't bear to see their own flaws laid out for the world to see, that's why they turn against anyone and everyone who takes a stand. The only good thing that came out of this was probably having the miracle of the kids. Dear Lord, I hope they don't have the same attitude as their freaking father.
I agree Muddie her kids are the only blessings out of it. I'm sure she will make sure her children are raised properly. It's sad that she will have this experience to raise her kids by though.

^^.^^ Yeah I felt kind of appalled at some points reading the comments of how some people actually blames her. It's not like she went and press charges on him herself. According to what I've read it articles it seems like she was talking to someone and a bailiff overheard and of course they probably felt alarmed because they aren't familiar with the culture and went and told someone of authority. I can't believe that she is being made the culprit in this when clearly she is the victim. As women and girls I was expecting more to have sympathy for her situation and understand her, yet I see so many people ridiculing even blaming her for what happened.

It's things like this that make women who are raped afraid to come out and speak. It's things like this that makes our environment a dangerous place. People are angry with her and ridiculing her because she decides to leave and divorce him? I mean what are younger girls suppose to do when they see this? If they got raped and read comments that were being posted about this or hear the radio station ridiculing the person. They will be to afraid come forward.
 

HuabNag

sarNie Adult
Only uneducated people think what he did was justified. Who cares if she did it out of anger or revenge. That is a stupid counter argument. The issue is forced marriages and rape. If you are Hmong, you know that under aged forced marriages and under age cultural rape happens all the time. More Hmong than him should be arrested and if you are defending him, you're likely defending your own action, actions of those around you, or your own denial of how messed up Hmong marriage dynamics really are. The only way for us to start changing is for us to realized the wrongs and stand up for it so that it can start changing. Cultural pressure prohibits many from speaking out and we knew that the bubble was only going to get so big before it explode and becomes media.
You got a good point in here....I support that

Like many of you mentioned we were not with them, so who was the lair we don't know...but for one thing that we should learn is that we're here in America, we should realize that if we did something against the law, we will have to take the consequent if we get caught. And like someone mentioned the law is not just to protect women, but to protect the victim and in this case, the wife is the victim. In many cases the husband is the victim and the law also does the same. So the law is really here to protect everyone.

Also many comments and people gossip taught me that Hmong people's thinking regarding gender's right is far away. Maybe hundred years from now we might be able to see a major difference. Most of the time when a marriage broke apart the fault usually blame on the wife, not just in this case, and the saddest thing is that women are the one that put others women down. In a marriage life, everyone in the family especially the in-law expect the nyab to cook, why not everyone in the family share the chores instead giving all to the nyab. I know this is tradition, but everyone works equally to bring food to the table, so everyone should share the chores, not just the nyab. I don't have a nyab, or not a nyab myself, but I always argued with my aunt and uncle when they complain about nyab being lazy. Look at the situation carefully and one will see who is right and who is wrong. Don't side with them just because they're your side of the family.

Also in this case, I didn't see what the wife did was wrong. I think she just stand up for herself and give the courage to other women to fight for justice against domestic violence. However, for some people (uneducated people), they will see this against the culture, but hitting, raping and cheating on one's spouse is not fair. I use the term uneducated not to put anyone down, but to point that people with logical reason would not agree that raping and hitting are acceptable. In this case here, did he really rape her, wow sleeping with a 12 years old girl is already considered raping even culture or not plus how could she gave her consent, her mind is not yet full develop so she will follow what she was told to do. And why she didn't report back in the back and why wait? Because she didn't have the courage to come out and willing to be the gossip topic of the town yet, that's why. Also I think she couldn't bear it anymore with his behavior that's why. Furthermore, even in a marriage if the wife or the husband didn't want to have intercourse and the other party is forcing, it is a rape…so marriage didn't guarantee a person 100% sex free of charge.

Some mentioned that she should think of her kids first and avoid this situation because he is the father of her children so think the other way around when he wanted to marry another woman, did he think she is the mother of his children, NO he was careless about his children that's why he marrying another wife especially someone that as young as his daughter. Didn't people realize that a daughter from a player father usually end up being hurt from her husband/boyfriend because he is a player like her own father, hence is this karma to his daughter? I would say so, but he didn't realize that or even care about his kids while he's having fun and hurting other women.

I said it is too bad the kids are born to them and have to go through this situation. However, the kids need to love both parent as much as they would because think of the suffering the parent had to endure to bring them to his world. Who's at fault doesn't matter, but to love both equally because mom + dad = them.

I hope that we Hmong we would be more open mind and accept the changing in the community/culture or else we will have less educated people in our community because many educated women are stepped out to find their part outside of the bubbles. Like they said, the good part of the culture we keep, the bad part, we need to let it goes. We need to accept the fact that a divorce is not just the wife's fault all the time and stop gossip about her. Most of the time, it was both, but people usually blame on the wife, that is she is lazy, cheat on her husband, and etc. Although there are some wives really like this, but not all are like this.

Hopefully this will taught a good lesson to all the old guys out there that here is America and respect everyone's right. However, I do feel sorry for the husband too, but I think he deserves what he did and he will be a role model for many youngsters and oldsters not to follow his path. Every foot print we step has meaning so learn and live from it.

If you're his cousin or know him please don't get mad at me because I only say what I think. And if he didn't do what he was accused, time will prove it. I BELIEVE THAT THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT SOMEDAY BECAUSE NO SECRET ON EARTH nor HEAVEN.
 

Tamaki

sarNie Egg
Reading this case reminds me of really bad memories. A hurtful memory enough that I'm willing to die. It still haunts me till this day, so I'm not going to share it. I guess if it was my dad, I would feel shameful, and hurt that he would marry another women instead of my mom. The only way I could think of is forgiving.
 

iluvjin

sarNie Adult
When I first heard of this I thought that it was recent and that she was just age 12 as of right now.

But that aside I don't like it when old men date young girls like 20 years younger. Whenever I hear about a old man marrying a young girl I feel a little disgusted.
 

pangmoua

RujRasa Fan
omg..my bf is 35, and i 28 (never been married). we date for almost 3 years. i just found out that he keep on e-mail those ladies in laos. when i checked his fone..i always see hmong loas pix there. so i asked him...whats the different between us ladies here and the hmong laos ladies there ? so he was like hke only joke with them..nothing serious.
not too long ago...i found some fone cards in his car.. but he claimed that belong to his friends.
im starting not to trust him at all. we always argue about this stupid thing.


by the way.......somehow i feel sorry that guy who get 110 years in prison..but somehow..i think he deserved it lolz. this will be the lesson for the hmong men here.

calla, that's a question i have for those who seeks girls in laos/thailand. what do they have that girls here in the US doesn't have? it disgust me when i hear or see old people here marrying young people there. i mean you married your wife when she was still young and now that she's old, you're leaving her for another young one? that isn't right, the older people here needs to stop and the young ones there needs to stop also. they both need to stop. why are we hmong ladies hurting each other by sharing a husband? i seriously will not share my husband, it's either one or the other, me or them. if he chooses them then he's out of my picture and sorry but there will be no second chance. there's no point getting hurt over and over by the same person.
 
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