Don't think that you're a God or Goddess when you're in Laos

Liberty

sarNie Adult
I think we should refrain from saying that one diety is higher than another because some people in here might worship nature and it could be offensive.

We should just respect one another's belief. There is no right or wrong in this world. It's the angle you look at it with. We shouldn't say "your belief is bullshit and mine is the bomb..everyone should follow me" that's what causes war! LOLlllllll

Can we discuss with peace here? LOllllllllll
You said it sister! :D

*The following is a brief summary of some major world religions* ;)

Techanically, doesn't all monothesistic religion believe in the same God but just have a different way of practicing it?
That's kind of the general idea I got from talking to Buddhist monks. From what they tell me Buddha's not considered a "God" per se more like a teacher, who offered a different way of life for people. I use to think the Hindu's were polythestic but when I visited a Hindu temple to do a school project they explained to me that they actually believe in only one God but he/she takes many forms, he/she incarnates when needed (which I'm guessing is not the same thing as reincarnated because they kept correcting me when I used that word).

FYI:Christianity "borrowed" a lot of things from the pagans.

The Buddhism I'm talking about is generally the one Thais and Laotians believe in, there's another kind that has slightly different practices and rules, that one I don't know much about.
 

ling

sarNie Hatchling
Man that freaks me out about the whole worm thing crawling up there. Gross but i get what you mean. Those things can happen anywhere. I think the reason he went to see a witch doc was because the family in Laos told him to. I don't know what the American docs did for him.
I'mma be very careful if and when i get to visit. And i love to eat food too. Hopefully i won't eat anything that'll make me sick. Wouldn't be fun. I just wanna shop, eat and see all the nice places (waterfalls, nature etc.) Can't wait! Well that's if i ever have the money.
 

Liberty

sarNie Adult
Man that freaks me out about the whole worm thing crawling up there. Gross but i get what you mean. Those things can happen anywhere. I think the reason he went to see a witch doc was because the family in Laos told him to. I don't know what the American docs did for him.
I'mma be very careful if and when i get to visit. And i love to eat food too. Hopefully i won't eat anything that'll make me sick. Wouldn't be fun. I just wanna shop, eat and see all the nice places (waterfalls, nature etc.) Can't wait! Well that's if i ever have the money.
If you're a student you can probably find discount flights. I don't think they have direct flights for students to Laos though so you might have to fly to Thailand and then find a way across to Laos. :)

Here's a site: Student Universe
 

dfemc

sarNie Adult
hahhaha, wow, man i never even thought about these things. it wasn't even that i wasn't aware, but it never crossed my mind. my trek in southeast asia crossing into Laos was an awesome experience for me in the past. i rarely ran into any those "bad ass" arrogant ppl thinking they're better than the Laotians there, don't recall any actually. ppl were fairly respectful and kind. i think what annoyed me most were white travelers. some of them are very mindful and respectful, but others truly exploited the local's kindness and was always wary of scams. it's fair that they're looking out for themselves, cuz i know it must "be hard being blonde and having gone thru most of southeast asia having kids run up to u for money" (*mind u i'm being sarcastic*). for many of these white travelers, they're not even experiencing an inch of the discrimination or exploitation some colored folks may have had to experience in the U.S., Canada, or Europe. so fuck that. though, of course, it would be ideal if everyone just treated each other fairly *all rainbows and butterflies*.

i ran into a few Africans from Niger and Zimbabwe while in Laos, and they're quite a company. anyhow, i miss Laos and the ppl there. i miss speaking the language and eating the food. and of course, despite how much u try to fit in, which works here and there sometimes, there will be the few times, when ur treated like a foreigner and the locals want more from u. can u blame them? no. but do i find acceptable? no. i don't have a problem when i'm traveling alone, but once my father tags along, the prices are jacked up left and right, because he sticks out like a sore thumb with his annoying american mannerisms. and in those cases, i really have to bargain hard and talk it up with folks.

but hey, that's all a part of the joy and stress of traveling. u come from a privileged place, and u'll just have to expect getting hustled, so it doesn't hurt to give a little bit more to the locals. afterall ur visiting their country. while ur in the states, ur hustled by corporate america anyhow, so what's the difference. :)
 

jenlattana

sarNie Egg
hahhaha, wow, man i never even thought about these things. it wasn't even that i wasn't aware, but it never crossed my mind. my trek in southeast asia crossing into Laos was an awesome experience for me in the past. i rarely ran into any those "bad ass" arrogant ppl thinking they're better than the Laotians there, don't recall any actually. ppl were fairly respectful and kind. i think what annoyed me most were white travelers. some of them are very mindful and respectful, but others truly exploited the local's kindness and was always wary of scams. it's fair that they're looking out for themselves, cuz i know it must "be hard being blonde and having gone thru most of southeast asia having kids run up to u for money" (*mind u i'm being sarcastic*). for many of these white travelers, they're not even experiencing an inch of the discrimination or exploitation some colored folks may have had to experience in the U.S., Canada, or Europe. so fuck that. though, of course, it would be ideal if everyone just treated each other fairly *all rainbows and butterflies*.

i ran into a few Africans from Niger and Zimbabwe while in Laos, and they're quite a company. anyhow, i miss Laos and the ppl there. i miss speaking the language and eating the food. and of course, despite how much u try to fit in, which works here and there sometimes, there will be the few times, when ur treated like a foreigner and the locals want more from u. can u blame them? no. but do i find acceptable? no. i don't have a problem when i'm traveling alone, but once my father tags along, the prices are jacked up left and right, because he sticks out like a sore thumb with his annoying american mannerisms. and in those cases, i really have to bargain hard and talk it up with folks.

but hey, that's all a part of the joy and stress of traveling. u come from a privileged place, and u'll just have to expect getting hustled, so it doesn't hurt to give a little bit more to the locals. afterall ur visiting their country. while ur in the states, ur hustled by corporate america anyhow, so what's the difference. :)
You're right. It was hard to not get noticed because no matter how hard I tried to fit in. For some reason they can always tell. Maybe it's the skin color? I don't know. But I know one way they can tell is how you write your numbers. Because when I went to a computer shop in my old raggy jeans, t-shirt and flip flops to call my parents overseas. I wrote the number down and he said. You're from America huh. How did he know? He said by the way I write. Good gawd!! They must have this 101 list memorized "How to recognize Laotian Americans." :lol: LOLlllll

At the markets I didn't bargain much because to me the price seemed low already and the ladies at the market do work very hard for their money. So I thought hmmm..why not. However the lady accompanied me to the market was not pleased with how I was not bargaining. So I gave her the money and she took over! lollllllll the stuff was cheap already for goodness sakes ^_^

One incident that made my heart sink was when I saw 5 ladies selling mangoes. They sold the same stuff and was sitting right next to each other. One of them call me to buy it from over here and the other said over here. Trying to give me the better bargain. It looked like they were getting ready to kill each other. I said you know what. You don't have to fight. I'll just buy from all of you 2 bags each. Which did not cost me much at all. I just spent 5 dollars at all 5 stands. I didn't even eat all the mangoes. I just kept a bag and gave the rest to a handicapped beggar in the parking lot.

What a deal!
 

CTR

The Realist guy here period
I think we should refrain from saying that one diety is higher than another because some people in here might worship nature and it could be offensive.

We should just respect one another's belief. There is no right or wrong in this world. It's the angle you look at it with. We shouldn't say "your belief is bullshit and mine is the bomb..everyone should follow me" that's what causes war! LOLlllllll

Can we discuss with peace here? LOllllllllll
Dude take a chill pill. I was referring to her grandpa and myself. I said we as in her grandpa and I. Like I said, he doesn't practice the old ways because in his opinion, he found a higher being to worship. It does not imply that is what everyone here believe but it is what he believe that is why he stop doing what he did. :huh: :mellow: No one is saying one is above another, I was implying he found a higher being to worship that is all. If he haven't, I don't think he would have stop doing the pagan things. lol. :mellow: Don't leap and hop before knowing the saying.


Liberty said:
FYI:Christianity "borrowed" a lot of things from the pagans.
That was due from the conversion of many pagans into the religion. Real Christianity has no pagan in it like Christmas tree, Santa Clause, etc. If you go scripture only, there is no pagan involved. No, monothesistic religion does not believe in the same GOD. The GOD of Islam is different of that of Christianity. Christianity and Judaism are more similar. If the beliefs are different, they cannot be from the same GOD. Doctrines are what separate them all. The Bible is on Christ and Christ was non-violent and gave blood. Mohammad was the prophet of GOD (for the Muslim) but he took many lives when he was alive. If one was non-violent and one was violent, how can they serve the same GOD? They basically contradict each other. What was the reason behind your grandpa's conversion? How did he come to that decision?

As for the exorcism, it was interesting. I'll try to explain it the best I can. This gentleman is a Christian believe and his whole father as well. But his father-in-law side are spiritualist and I think one of the ancestor spirit went into than man. The spirit said that he did not tell them about their nephew getting marry so he was possessed. The man was 80 years old but on that day, he was angry and had extra strength from somewhere. He was cursing and shouting too. His wife called the pastor to come help out. Right when the pastor came in the house, the spirit knew who he was and said that he would not leave that man because the spirit was angry at him. His son and daughter was holding man so he couldn't move and they could barely contain him. The pastor put the Bible on him and the spirit was creaming in pain. The pastor also said some prayer too. Like 30 minutes later, the man ( with the spirit) came crawling to the pastor and said he was sorry. The spirit said he was mad because they did not tell him about the nephew getting mad and they did not offer any sacrifice to him. After that, the spirit left the man and he return back to normal.
 

KEdoubleNY

sarNie Adult
Dude take a chill pill. I was referring to her grandpa and myself. I said we as in her grandpa and I. Like I said, he doesn't practice the old ways because in his opinion, he found a higher being to worship. It does not imply that is what everyone here believe but it is what he believe that is why he stop doing what he did. :huh: :mellow: No one is saying one is above another, I was implying he found a higher being to worship that is all. If he haven't, I don't think he would have stop doing the pagan things. lol. :mellow: Don't leap and hop before knowing the saying.
So, what higher being are we talking about here ... ;) ;) ;)
 

Liberty

sarNie Adult
Dude take a chill pill. I was referring to her grandpa and myself. I said we as in her grandpa and I. Like I said, he doesn't practice the old ways because in his opinion, he found a higher being to worship. It does not imply that is what everyone here believe but it is what he believe that is why he stop doing what he did. :huh: :mellow: No one is saying one is above another, I was implying he found a higher being to worship that is all. If he haven't, I don't think he would have stop doing the pagan things. lol. :mellow: Don't leap and hop before knowing the saying.
That was due from the conversion of many pagans into the religion. Real Christianity has no pagan in it like Christmas tree, Santa Clause, etc. If you go scripture only, there is no pagan involved. No, monothesistic religion does not believe in the same GOD. The GOD of Islam is different of that of Christianity. Christianity and Judaism are more similar. If the beliefs are different, they cannot be from the same GOD. Doctrines are what separate them all. The Bible is on Christ and Christ was non-violent and gave blood. Mohammad was the prophet of GOD (for the Muslim) but he took many lives when he was alive. If one was non-violent and one was violent, how can they serve the same GOD? They basically contradict each other. What was the reason behind your grandpa's conversion? How did he come to that decision?
You do realize that there are many different forms of Christianity right? Just because you believe a certain way doesn't mean all Christians believe the same thing. I should know, I use to be a Christian, Baptist and Lutheran. I also use to be a Buddhist. Buddhism is NOT a pagan religion, my grandpa gave up Buddhism for his own reasons not because he stopped believing in Buddha. Buddhist or Christian, it's the same higher power, just a different way of worshipping. NO the God of Islam ISN'T DIFFERENT from the Christian God, again it's just a different way of worshipping, different ways of doing things. I have many Muslim friends and they'd beg to differ from your point of view. Have you studied much about different religions? Jesus was a JEW , Christianity didn't come into being until AFTER the death of Jesus. In case you didn't know, Jesus wasn't trying to start a new religion he was trying to bring the old (Judaism) back to its roots. Christianity started from Judaism same with Islam.

A part of why my grandpa converted was because he became an American citizen and started going to church with my aunts. He needed an outlet to practice a religion and there weren't any Buddhist temples in our area so he converted. He's still the same man, still has the same beliefs, he's just choosing to practice it in a different form. I'm Agnostic because I choose to not be affiliated with any religion after taking many years to study and learn about other religions. I'm a spiritual person, I know deep down inside what I believe, I don't need any person or any text telling me how to worship or what to believe or what to do to be a good person, I know how to be a good person on my own. But I have a deep respect for all religions.

Paganism is deeply rooted in Christianity, it goes way beyond the superfical stuff you see during holidays. You shouldn't take it personal, if you'll just do some research, take the time to learn about other religions and look at it from a TRUE historical and scientific point of view. Muslims aren't the only one raging a religious war, for centuries Christians have done the same thing in the "name of God" hence the Crusades. Several of the biblical stories you read are very similar to Pagan beliefs across the world, you honestly think it's a coincident? (FYI:pagans weren't limited to the Western Europe, it included some Asian religions as well and Native Americans.) Yes, many Pagan aspects were adopted into Christianity to encourage pagans to convert, they figured that if they didn't have to change to much of their way Pagan's would be more likely to adopt Christianity as their own. Even after Jesus died and Chrisianity came into existence, they were still struggling to survive in a Pagan world, if it wasn't for a Roman Emperor who decided to convert his kingdom from a pagan to a Christian one, it would probably be centuries later before Christians developed a big following. Constantine did it in an attempt to stop Christian persecution but he most likely did it to gain more political power as well.

If you want to know more I can find you a quick wiki link, normally I don't rely on it for information but it's probably better than asking you to read several books.

Emperor Constantine

Another thing, conversion works both ways. I know many people who use to be devoted Christians and converted to Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and even Neo-Paganism because they agreed with the teachings more. Catholicism was the original form of Christianity. Before the Protestant Reformation there was no need to differentiate between Catholics and Christians thus everyone under the church were considered Christians. So I know for a fact that NOT all Christians interpret the Bible the same way because Catholics have a way of doing their thing. If you want to thank someone for being able to practice your Christian beliefs the way you do, thank Martin Luther (not Martin Luther King, different guy), arguably the man to discover Protestanism and King Henry VIII for breaking away from the Church, granted he did it for selfish reasons (wanting to divorce his wives).

Monothesitc religions aren't any different than Polythestic religions, it's just a different way of believing things and worshipping. God didn't write the Bible or the Quran, man did, religious leaders and these men used religion to manipulate people to do what they want, to believe what they want. That's how it's been for centuries, even in Pagan times (way before Christianity even came into existence). To really understand it you have to go far back and understand the root of religion and the political aspect of it. Religion wasn't just a way for people to worship, to give people something to believe in, it was a way for rulers and religious leaders to control people.
 

lilxgxriah

sarNie Adult
i hear a lot of stories of manly laos guys going back to laos and act like they have a lot of money thinking they are so rich, but when they come home, they end up leaving their own family penny-less, and getting new wives and stuff like that....its sad really...like if you cant leave the guy, you end up being called mae noi or mae yai
 

CTR

The Realist guy here period
So, what higher being are we talking about here ... ;) ;) ;)
It depends on you. For Christian it is GOD. For atheist there is no GOD. For gnostic, it is the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. Her Grandpa and I are in the same boat. As for you, it depends on you. :p ^_^ ^_^
 

CTR

The Realist guy here period
Liberty said:
You do realize that there are many different forms of Christianity right? Just because you believe a certain way doesn't mean all Christians believe the same thing. I should know, I use to be a Christian, Baptist and Lutheran. I also use to be a Buddhist. Buddhism is NOT a pagan religion, my grandpa gave up Buddhism for his own reasons not because he stopped believing in Buddha. Buddhist or Christian, it's the same higher power, just a different way of worshipping. NO the God of Islam ISN'T DIFFERENT from the Christian God, again it's just a different way of worshipping, different ways of doing things. I have many Muslim friends and they'd beg to differ from your point of view. Have you studied much about different religions? Jesus was a JEW , Christianity didn't come into being until AFTER the death of Jesus. In case you didn't know, Jesus wasn't trying to start a new religion he was trying to bring the old (Judaism) back to its roots. Christianity started from Judaism same with Islam.
That is completely wrong. As I have taken four theology courses at Marquette University Jesuit sector of Catholicism. I am CM&A by the way. Buddhist do believe in spirit and do worship spirit you do know that right. I see plenty of it in Thai and Lao. The King of Thailand has a spirit shrines and there are spirit houses at every corners too. To be mono, you have to serve one GOD. Not the same higher power because you are not teaching the same thing. If there are fundamentally different than it cannot come from the same thing. If one teacher teaches you something is blue and one teaches you something is red then we cannot say they are from the same power. Christianity started after the dead of Christ true because he stated he is the only way to his believers How can you be from the same GOD if one of your followers teaches about killing and while the other one teaches about love? Taking someone's life and forgiving someone is totally different. If you read the Koran, they have passages that say to despise and kill Christian and Jews? Look at the Surah too if yo have a chance. How can they be from the same GOD if they want to kill Christian and Jews? Obiviously, when yo u have a Muslim country like Iran trying to alienate Israel then there is no brotherly love there. What you are trying to do is lump everything into one.

Judiasm ---- Christ is not messiah --- Still waiting for messiah, one GOD, You have to be a Jew -- Jewish Bible.
Christianity --- Christ is messiah--- Son of GOD ---- Christ will return one day, Everyone is welcome to join, his message was more toward gentile, love and peace --- Bible.
Islam --- Muhammad is prophet --- Christ is a prophet not son of GOD --- Prophet took lives instead of giving life --- Koran and Surah as main books.


A part of why my grandpa converted was because he became an American citizen and started going to church with my aunts. He needed an outlet to practice a religion and there weren't any Buddhist temples in our area so he converted. He's still the same man, still has the same beliefs, he's just choosing to practice it in a different form. I'm Agnostic because I choose to not be affiliated with any religion after taking many years to study and learn about other religions. I'm a spiritual person, I know deep down inside what I believe, I don't need any person or any text telling me how to worship or what to believe or what to do to be a good person, I know how to be a good person on my own. But I have a deep respect for all religions.
I'm glad you are gnostic and respect that. I don't think you can force your will upon people. There has to be a reason why someone would convert. You just can't force someone to convert, they have to accept it on their own terms. People convert because they have their encounter something special or unique in their lives. That was the reason why I converted and probably your grandpa. I don't think out of the blues you just convert. God cannot force people to accept him only by their won choice.

Liberty said:
Another thing, conversion works both ways. I know many people who use to be devoted Christians and converted to Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and even Neo-Paganism because they agreed with the teachings more. Catholicism was the original form of Christianity. Before the Protestant Reformation there was no need to differentiate between Catholics and Christians thus everyone under the church were considered Christians. So I know for a fact that NOT all Christians interpret the Bible the same way because Catholics have a way of doing their thing. If you want to thank someone for being able to practice your Christian beliefs the way you do, thank Martin Luther (not Martin Luther King, different guy), arguably the man to discover Protestanism and King Henry VIII for breaking away from the Church, granted he did it for selfish reasons (wanting to divorce his wives).
Actually, you are wrong. My style is a mixture of Catholic tradition and protestant. Interpreting the Bible is not the problem here. Protestant is scripture only while Catholic (which means universal) is based on tradition and Bible. They place more emphasis on tradition more. For a sect to be consider Chrisitianity it must follow a certain guidelines established in 381 A.D, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. If this creed is not followed then that sect is not considered Christian. I.E -- Mormon,etc... The Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox schism was in 1054 AD. All of the Christian sects made have different ways of worshipping but they all hold true to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed that is the foundation for our beliefs. Oh by the way, wikipedia is not the best place to get info because anyone can edit it. To get real info, you have to read books like these: Introduction to Theology, a history of the christian tradition, why the church?, at the origin of the Christian claim, GOD and the ways of knowing, the spiritual exercise of St. Ignatius, the Relgious Sense, a history of Christian tradition, etc. These are just a small sample of my entire collection.


Monotheistic religions aren't any different than Polytheistic religions; it's just a different way of believing things and worshipping. God didn't write the Bible or the Quran, man did, religious leaders and these men used religion to manipulate people to do what they want, to believe what they want. That's how it's been for centuries, even in Pagan times (way before Christianity even came into existence). To really understand it you have to go far back and understand the root of religion and the political aspect of it. Religion wasn't just a way for people to worship, to give people something to believe in, it was a way for rulers and religious leaders to control people.


Mono is different from Poly because mono is one while Polytheistic is many. It is like saying apples and oranges are the same thing. In Monotheistic, you worship ONE GOD and in Polytheistic you worship MANY GODS. One GOD and many GODS is not the same thing. So if I bow down to one GOD and someone next to me bow down to many Gods, is that considered the same thing? It is like saying 1+1 =2 and then saying 1+2=2. No way, they are not the same thing. You are trying to sandwich everything in together. There are plethoras of differences between the two. The important word here is “belief.� One or many. Unlike Christian, Jewish and Islamic doctrine, there is rarely an absolute truth associated with polytheistic thinking. God spokes to these prophets and apostles. These teachings have truth in them. If you are looking at it that way yes but you have to look at the deeper meaning. The real followers of Christ will know his teaching and that he has given authorities to his apostles to continue his teaching. Christ gave authority to his 12 apostles (Judas was replaced) to spread his message and teach people the right ways. Have the Catholic Church abused that power? Yes, they have in a big way. That was one of the reasons why Luther broke off. Is the teaching of Christ false because of that? No. Christ teaching is universal and can be apply to everyone.

A small sample of my book collection: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TXAR1SVT

Differences in Christianity and Islam: http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/islam.html#tone

Monotheism at Stanford University: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/monotheism/

Polytheism: http://www.polytheism.net/

Yes, all Christian sects worship differently but they all hold the Nicene Creed. This truth is the foundation that binds all Christians together. God the father, God the son, the Holy Spirit― that they are one.

So how can this be the same as the other religion? For Christianity to be like other religion, we would have to denounce that foundation of a Christian’s faith. Same thing apply with Islam. They will never denounce Mohammed as their prophet as well.

Mono ― One GOD ― Christianity, Judaism, Islam
Poly ― Many Gods
Teacher ― Buddhism, Taoism, Confucius, etc.
Gnosticism/Mysticism ― based on Gnosis, the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. The Gnostic God concept is more subtle than that of most religions. In its way, it unites and reconciles the recognitions of Monotheism and Polytheism, as well as of Theism, Deism and Pantheism. This is strongly rejected by monotheism. They cannot come from the same foundation because of their beliefs not style of worship. Different style of worship in Christianity can co-exist due to same founding principles thus forming the one body of Christ― the Christian church. You can ask any Christian, Jew, Muslim and they will say the same thing. Thus, poly, mono, and gnostic cannot be lump into one.

Monotheism:
Christianity: 3 in 1, messiah is Christ, Bible consists of Old and New Testament

Judaism: Waiting for messiah, Christ is not messiah; book is the Jewish Bible which consists of the Torah.

Islam: Main prophet is Mohammad, Christ is a prophet, Main book consist of Koran and Surah. Two main sects are Shiite and Sunni.

Oh, one more thing, Baptist, Luthern, Catholic, Protestant are all Christian.
 

Liberty

sarNie Adult
That is completely wrong. As I have taken four theology courses at Marquette University Jesuit sector of Catholicism. I am CM&A by the way. Buddhist do believe in spirit and do worship spirit you do know that right. I see plenty of it in Thai and Lao. The King of Thailand has a spirit shrines and there are spirit houses at every corners too. To be mono, you have to serve one GOD. Not the same higher power because you are not teaching the same thing. If there are fundamentally different than it cannot come from the same thing. If one teacher teaches you something is blue and one teaches you something is red then we cannot say they are from the same power. Christianity started after the dead of Christ true because he stated he is the only way to his believers How can you be from the same GOD if one of your followers teaches about killing and while the other one teaches about love? Taking someone's life and forgiving someone is totally different. If you read the Koran, they have passages that say to despise and kill Christian and Jews? Look at the Surah too if yo have a chance. How can they be from the same GOD if they want to kill Christian and Jews? Obiviously, when yo u have a Muslim country like Iran trying to alienate Israel then there is no brotherly love there. What you are trying to do is lump everything into one.

Judiasm ---- Christ is not messiah --- Still waiting for messiah, one GOD, You have to be a Jew -- Jewish Bible.
Christianity --- Christ is messiah--- Son of GOD ---- Christ will return one day, Everyone is welcome to join, his message was more toward gentile, love and peace --- Bible.
Islam --- Muhammad is prophet --- Christ is a prophet not son of GOD --- Prophet took lives instead of giving life --- Koran and Surah as main books.
I'm glad you are gnostic and respect that. I don't think you can force your will upon people. There has to be a reason why someone would convert. You just can't force someone to convert, they have to accept it on t
heir own terms. People convert because they have their encounter something special or unique in their lives. That was the reason why I converted and probably your grandpa. I don't think out of the blues you just convert. God cannot force people to accept him only by their won choice.
Actually, you are wrong. My style is a mixture of Catholic tradition and protestant. Interpreting the Bible is not the problem here. Protestant is scripture only while Catholic (which means universal) is based on tradition and Bible. They place more emphasis on tradition more. For a sect to be consider Chrisitianity it must follow a certain guidelines established in 381 A.D, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. If this creed is not followed then that sect is not considered Christian. I.E -- Mormon,etc... The Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox schism was in 1054 AD. All of the Christian sects made have different ways of worshipping but they all hold true to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed that is the foundation for our beliefs. Oh by the way, wikipedia is not the best place to get info because anyone can edit it. To get real info, you have to read books like these: Introduction to Theology, a history of the christian tradition, why the church?, at the origin of the Christian claim, GOD and the ways of knowing, the spiritual exercise of St. Ignatius, the Relgious Sense, a history of Christian tradition, etc. These are just a small sample of my entire collection.
Monotheistic religions aren't any different than Polytheistic religions; it's just a different way of believing things and worshipping. God didn't write the Bible or the Quran, man did, religious leaders and these men used religion to manipulate people to do what they want, to believe what they want. That's how it's been for centuries, even in Pagan times (way before Christianity even came into existence). To really understand it you have to go far back and understand the root of religion and the political aspect of it. Religion wasn't just a way for people to worship, to give people something to believe in, it was a way for rulers and religious leaders to control people.
Mono is different from Poly because mono is one while Polytheistic is many. It is like saying apples and oranges are the same thing. In Monotheistic, you worship ONE GOD and in Polytheistic you worship MANY GODS. One GOD and many GODS is not the same thing. So if I bow down to one GOD and someone next to me bow down to many Gods, is that considered the same thing? It is like saying 1+1 =2 and then saying 1+2=2. No way, they are not the same thing. You are trying to sandwich everything in together. There are plethoras of differences between the two. The important word here is “belief.� One or many. Unlike Christian, Jewish and Islamic doctrine, there is rarely an absolute truth associated with polytheistic thinking. God spokes to these prophets and apostles. These teachings have truth in them. If you are looking at it that way yes but you have to look at the deeper meaning. The real followers of Christ will know his teaching and that he has given authorities to his apostles to continue his teaching. Christ gave authority to his 12 apostles (Judas was replaced) to spread his message and teach people the right ways. Have the Catholic Church abused that power? Yes, they have in a big way. That was one of the reasons why Luther broke off. Is the teaching of Christ false because of that? No. Christ teaching is universal and can be apply to everyone.

A small sample of my book collection: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TXAR1SVT

Differences in Christianity and Islam: http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/islam.html#tone

Monotheism at Stanford University: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/monotheism/

Polytheism: http://www.polytheism.net/

Yes, all Christian sects worship differently but they all hold the Nicene Creed. This truth is the foundation that binds all Christians together. God the father, God the son, the Holy Spirit― that they are one.

So how can this be the same as the other religion? For Christianity to be like other religion, we would have to denounce that foundation of a Christian’s faith. Same thing apply with Islam. They will never denounce Mohammed as their prophet as well.

Mono ― One GOD ― Christianity, Judaism, Islam
Poly ― Many Gods
Teacher ― Buddhism, Taoism, Confucius, etc.
Gnosticism/Mysticism ― based on Gnosis, the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. The Gnostic God concept is more subtle than that of most religions. In its way, it unites and reconciles the recognitions of Monotheism and Polytheism, as well as of Theism, Deism and Pantheism. This is strongly rejected by monotheism. They cannot come from the same foundation because of their beliefs not style of worship. Different style of worship in Christianity can co-exist due to same founding principles thus forming the one body of Christ― the Christian church. You can ask any Christian, Jew, Muslim and they will say the same thing. Thus, poly, mono, and gnostic cannot be lump into one.

Monotheism:
Christianity: 3 in 1, messiah is Christ, Bible consists of Old and New Testament

Judaism: Waiting for messiah, Christ is not messiah; book is the Jewish Bible which consists of the Torah.

Islam: Main prophet is Mohammad, Christ is a prophet, Main book consist of Koran and Surah. Two main sects are Shiite and Sunni.

Oh, one more thing, Baptist, Luthern, Catholic, Protestant are all Christian.
That's nice that you took 4 theology classes. I use to be an archeology major on top of the courses I took while under that major, I learned about religious history in advance placement classes throughout high school. Even when I was no longer an archeology major I still took historical classes in relations to mythology, religious history, world history and world politics for my own self improvement and personal knowledge. And outside of school I took it upon myself to read and learn as much as I can on my own. I have a great interest in world religions and mythology.

I'm well aware that Baptist, Luthern, Catholics are all Christians, but they all have a different way of doing things. Did you read what I said at all? You can't say that they call interpret the bible exactly the same way becuase I've been to at least 5 different churches and each time it was different.
I'm NOT Gnostic, I'm AGNOSTIC, there's a big difference between the two, if you really learned about religion as you said you did you would've known. To be exact, I'm Agnostic Theists, which means I believe in a higher being but I'm NOT affiliated with any religion.
The fact that you took theology courses at a religious University pretty much explains it all. How much of what you learn is the actual historical truth and not someone else's truth? Can you really expect an unbiased teachings of others religion from a religious school?
There are several forms of Buddhism, for the most part Thais and Laos believe in ONE higher being. Just because they pray to spiriits and honor them doesn't make them polythestic because they don't see these spirits as Gods, unless you're talking about another form of Buddhism, commonly practice in China, Japan and parts of Korea. If praying to spirits made them polythestic then the same could be said about Christianity because Christians pray to Saints.

I said that monothestic religions aren't THAT MUCH different than polythestic religions. It seems as though you're not reading what I type clearly. I know full well the differences are but the basis of it is similar. If you only focus on the negatives and the differences you'll get what we have today and what's been going on for centuries, a religious war because some people can't seem to get pass their differences.

Like I said my grandpa wasn't force to switch, he do so willingly because he was going through changes in his life and needed a religious outlet. Where he use to live there hadn't been a Buddhist temple built yet so he starting going to church with my aunts and from that he realized that the basic teachings of Christianity and Buddism were similar so he converted, because my grandpa was the type of person to commit myself to something. He didn't think one was better than the other, or one was more appealing than the other, it was just a choice he made to move one religion to another because the basic belief in a higher power and good was there. He still goes to Buddhist temples for cultural stuff but he goes to church for religious stuff. I've asked him about it and he sees no difference in God, whether he was a Buddhist or a Christian, he still believed in God, he was just worshipping God in a different way now.
As I recall, I remember the Dalai Lama giving doing an interview and he said what I'm trying to explain to you about Buddhism and other religions, and that it doesn't matter what religion you are because God will God no matter how you choose to worship. Those aren't his exact words but it's the gist of what he was saying. If I can find the interview online I'll give you the link. Are you going to arguing against what the Dalai Lama says about Buddhism? He's like the pope for Buddhism. As for Islam, have you read the Koran, I mean really? one that wasn't translated by a Christian to another person to try to brainwash them? From what I've learned from other Muslism is that voilence is NOT part of their religion, the only time it's okay to strike out against another person is to protect yourself from harm. If someone is trying to physically harm you, it's NOT a sin to fight back. But to just kill or harm others for no other reason goes against their beliefs. Are you going to tell me that all these Muslims were some how taught wrong?
As for Judaism, big deal they don't believe Jesus is the messiah but everything else is pretty much similar, so that means they believe in a different God from Christians? Have you talked to many Jewish people and/or Rabies? You're going to tell me that they all think that Jews and Christians worship different Gods?

I have talked and asked the question you suggested to any Christian, Jews and Muslisms, actually several and that's where I got my conclusions from. I'm the only Agnostic within my friends and family, everyone else around me is either Buddhist, various forms of Christians, Jews or Muslisms. If they didn't bring up the "same god" issue I would never have assumed it myself and brought it up as a point here. BUT I will point out that like you, NOT all Christians agree on the 'same god' issue but those were usually more conservative Christians. From my studies I can understand why these people would see Christians, Jews and Muslism as sharing the same God even though they have differing religions. Christians came from Jews, the only difference between them is that the Jews didn't accept Jesus as the messiah but aside from that their teachings and belief in God is the same. Islam has it's own ties to Judaism.

Your first link doesn't work.

If you're going to respond maybe we should take this to personal messages instead I don't wanna clog up this thread with our debate. :)
 

KEdoubleNY

sarNie Adult
ahhh ya crazy ... slow down on this religion shitnitz .. you know .. everyone has his/her own opinion ... so respect that ... no need to get into details about the religion and how it started ...

anyways ... people from the US think Lao people are dirt poor but daym ... they be rolling in Lexus, Mercedez, BMW, Ferrari etc. I heard they even got the H2 (Hummer H2) ... and Lao people in Laos think Lao people in the US are rich ... but some be living in the ghetto (housing projects) struggling to survive ...
 

noungning

Heartless

Lao people in Laos will treat Oversea Lao more differently ... I don't know why but they tend to think all Lao oversea (US, Canada, Australia) have money ... but they don't know the struggle that we (oversea Lao) goes through day by day ...
this isn't just in laos, this is everywhere as they think ANYONE from the Western side of the world is well off compared to them.

So true. My dad has relatives that write to him asking for money like we have so much of it.
I know they're living harder over there but my dad has to take care of his family first.
well, when i went to visit laos. i can't say they are living a harder life. all of us lives differently, they live a life without debt, they own a small shop, have a small farm, makes a living day by day... but they're not satisfied. but they don't really understand that we live in the US, we have debts, we work to pay debts and live day to day. i think, the way of living in laos, without debt, is a much better life than living in the US and have a ton of debt. but that's just IMHO. ;)


anyways ... people from the US think Lao people are dirt poor but daym ... they be rolling in Lexus, Mercedez, BMW, Ferrari etc. I heard they even got the H2 (Hummer H2) ... and Lao people in Laos think Lao people in the US are rich ... but some be living in the ghetto (housing projects) struggling to survive ...
yes, this is very true. and it's not just they own luxury cars, they buy the cars CASHED! no down, no lease, no finance. cash baby!

i know a couple who came to the US, and this is what they said in lao, i'll quote them but in english, "people said we can't die yet until we step on the grounds of the US, so we had to just come and see how it is, this heavenly part of earth everyone wishes to come to". they came and they said, it's nothing, they lived a much easier life back home. now, they are just working to make money so they can send it back to their 2 kids left back at home.

...

answering to the thread...

when i went, although it was a 5 day span lol... i did get ripped off a few times haha, but it didn't stop me from bargaining. i treated everyone with respect, because that's just how i've lived my life, if u want respect, it has to be given... although, many people on the forum might disapprove of my statement haha because some might have found me rude... but that's another story, in reality, that's just my beliefs.

i've witnessed my relatives lives, and although like some might have thought, "oh they're living a tougher life than us, because we live in the US and they live in Laos" it's just to a certain aspect. like i've stated above... it's not always like that.

there was no way i could blend in because hahah i just look different, my skin is quite lighter than all of them. and that was after i got a tan! then i guess my size too, they can just tell, but i speak really fluent laotian, so sometimes, i can can pass, in the clubs, because it's darker! hahahaha

but with respect and body language, it's the same in thailand. u never wanna step on someone's feet, u never know who is capable of killing u and throwing u off the cliff right? where ever you go, u have to respect the cultures/traditions, respect the people, and respect the places. for example, just because u're not used to taking off your shoes, you can't just wear your shoes in the temple because you've never done it... it's just a sign of disrespect, and if you can't respect that, then it's not a place you should be.
 

jenlattana

sarNie Egg
You do realize that there are many different forms of Christianity right? Just because you believe a certain way doesn't mean all Christians believe the same thing. I should know, I use to be a Christian, Baptist and Lutheran. I also use to be a Buddhist. Buddhism is NOT a pagan religion, my grandpa gave up Buddhism for his own reasons not because he stopped believing in Buddha. Buddhist or Christian, it's the same higher power, just a different way of worshipping. NO the God of Islam ISN'T DIFFERENT from the Christian God, again it's just a different way of worshipping, different ways of doing things. I have many Muslim friends and they'd beg to differ from your point of view. Have you studied much about different religions? Jesus was a JEW , Christianity didn't come into being until AFTER the death of Jesus. In case you didn't know, Jesus wasn't trying to start a new religion he was trying to bring the old (Judaism) back to its roots. Christianity started from Judaism same with Islam.

A part of why my grandpa converted was because he became an American citizen and started going to church with my aunts. He needed an outlet to practice a religion and there weren't any Buddhist temples in our area so he converted. He's still the same man, still has the same beliefs, he's just choosing to practice it in a different form. I'm Agnostic because I choose to not be affiliated with any religion after taking many years to study and learn about other religions. I'm a spiritual person, I know deep down inside what I believe, I don't need any person or any text telling me how to worship or what to believe or what to do to be a good person, I know how to be a good person on my own. But I have a deep respect for all religions.

Paganism is deeply rooted in Christianity, it goes way beyond the superfical stuff you see during holidays. You shouldn't take it personal, if you'll just do some research, take the time to learn about other religions and look at it from a TRUE historical and scientific point of view. Muslims aren't the only one raging a religious war, for centuries Christians have done the same thing in the "name of God" hence the Crusades. Several of the biblical stories you read are very similar to Pagan beliefs across the world, you honestly think it's a coincident? (FYI:pagans weren't limited to the Western Europe, it included some Asian religions as well and Native Americans.) Yes, many Pagan aspects were adopted into Christianity to encourage pagans to convert, they figured that if they didn't have to change to much of their way Pagan's would be more likely to adopt Christianity as their own. Even after Jesus died and Chrisianity came into existence, they were still struggling to survive in a Pagan world, if it wasn't for a Roman Emperor who decided to convert his kingdom from a pagan to a Christian one, it would probably be centuries later before Christians developed a big following. Constantine did it in an attempt to stop Christian persecution but he most likely did it to gain more political power as well.

If you want to know more I can find you a quick wiki link, normally I don't rely on it for information but it's probably better than asking you to read several books.

Emperor Constantine

Another thing, conversion works both ways. I know many people who use to be devoted Christians and converted to Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and even Neo-Paganism because they agreed with the teachings more. Catholicism was the original form of Christianity. Before the Protestant Reformation there was no need to differentiate between Catholics and Christians thus everyone under the church were considered Christians. So I know for a fact that NOT all Christians interpret the Bible the same way because Catholics have a way of doing their thing. If you want to thank someone for being able to practice your Christian beliefs the way you do, thank Martin Luther (not Martin Luther King, different guy), arguably the man to discover Protestanism and King Henry VIII for breaking away from the Church, granted he did it for selfish reasons (wanting to divorce his wives).

Monothesitc religions aren't any different than Polythestic religions, it's just a different way of believing things and worshipping. God didn't write the Bible or the Quran, man did, religious leaders and these men used religion to manipulate people to do what they want, to believe what they want. That's how it's been for centuries, even in Pagan times (way before Christianity even came into existence). To really understand it you have to go far back and understand the root of religion and the political aspect of it. Religion wasn't just a way for people to worship, to give people something to believe in, it was a way for rulers and religious leaders to control people.


I agree with Liberty!

What I meant up there was higher power should not be mention. I mean how would you know if something was higher than another? If it was something that you believe in of course you would say it is higher. If it is something that I believe in I would probably think it was higher too. However, when it comes down to it everything is the same. Just a different way of looking at it. Let's just imagine that we are going to the same place but taking different paths to it. Some people might just argue that my road will get us to the right place and yours will not. I think no matter what road you take as long as you're not harming anyone or yourself then you're taking the right path ^_^ Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh ^_^


Oh and about rich or poor we all put our pants on the same way. We have to eat to survive, sleep to regain energy and also walk on our feet. Show me that you don't have to do any of these things and I might change my mind that you are superior to me hahaha ^_^ LMAO --that was a statement out of no where hahaha..hur hur i'm tired. later guys!
 

JuiMyLove

sarNie Egg
blah blah blah. same old thing. same old wars except in different shapes and sizes: thankfully here we're using words instead of nuclear weapons. for as long as it exists, religion will forever be an ongoing war until neither is declared the victor and both sides perished. but you know what is funny? religion is not at war, for it is actually people who are: people with contradicting views.

in my humble opinion, if religion is used appropriately, then it should act as a skeleton for a way of living peacefully and intrinsically, not for a way of power, absoluteness, or other human flaws. religion is supposed to be a light that guides us with hope daily so that life is worth living and directed toward a peaceful eternity. it is this light that should be radiated instead of blood shedding we have been accustomed to witnessing throughout human history.

and why is it that human beings are so fond of creators? This person is the "father" of medicine because he was first to discover it. This person is that "father" of astronomy because he was first to explore space with great details. this "entity" is the "holy father" of all human beings because he created them. at the human level, we know that the "fathers" were far from being perfect. But what is our definition of perfection? How red must an object be for it to be perfectly red? How do we know that a certain spectrum is the perfect one for redness? We don't. We (the majority) just agree upon a standard of redness. But how can we set a standard for an entity that we cannot physically observe? How do we standardize a "holy father" when we don't even have a clue? I'm pretty sure we'll all find out after we die (that is, if there is conscious existence after death). but for now, can any religion honestly claim that their version is the absolute truth or standard?

in regards to what i just wrote, some of you might say "blah blah blah, you're too opinionated with no historical facts at all." but what makes you think you are anymore right with your so-called facts than i am with my opinions? (try communicating a sentence consisting of 20 words to another person and that person domino-ing it down until the 100th person receives it. do you think the last person will echo the initial exact sentence? i doubt it.). you see, it is human nature to create multiple views of things. We create a right and a wrong side. (fyi, i'm not saying that my opinion is anymore right than anyone else's is). because it is human nature to create contrasting views, the world will always be at our until human beings no longer exist. in science, human beings create a "perfect" laboratory setting so that many different variables are controlled to make testing most convenient. so can scientists really claim that there results are exactly what you'll find in reality? you might get something close to it but never exactly it.

so i say, respect other people's beliefs and hope that they show you the same level of respect you deserve. in a perfect world, it would happen; but human beings are imperfect so it'll never happen. just try your best to be respectful! :)
 

jenlattana

sarNie Egg
blah blah blah. same old thing. same old wars except in different shapes and sizes: thankfully here we're using words instead of nuclear weapons. for as long as it exists, religion will forever be an ongoing war until neither is declared the victor and both sides perished. but you know what is funny? religion is not at war, for it is actually people who are: people with contradicting views.

in my humble opinion, if religion is used appropriately, then it should act as a skeleton for a way of living peacefully and intrinsically, not for a way of power, absoluteness, or other human flaws. religion is supposed to be a light that guides us with hope daily so that life is worth living and directed toward a peaceful eternity. it is this light that should be radiated instead of blood shedding we have been accustomed to witnessing throughout human history.

and why is it that human beings are so fond of creators? This person is the "father" of medicine because he was first to discover it. This person is that "father" of astronomy because he was first to explore space with great details. this "entity" is the "holy father" of all human beings because he created them. at the human level, we know that the "fathers" were far from being perfect. But what is our definition of perfection? How red must an object be for it to be perfectly red? How do we know that a certain spectrum is the perfect one for redness? We don't. We (the majority) just agree upon a standard of redness. But how can we set a standard for an entity that we cannot physically observe? How do we standardize a "holy father" when we don't even have a clue? I'm pretty sure we'll all find out after we die (that is, if there is conscious existence after death). but for now, can any religion honestly claim that their version is the absolute truth or standard?

in regards to what i just wrote, some of you might say "blah blah blah, you're too opinionated with no historical facts at all." but what makes you think you are anymore right with your so-called facts than i am with my opinions? (try communicating a sentence consisting of 20 words to another person and that person domino-ing it down until the 100th person receives it. do you think the last person will echo the initial exact sentence? i doubt it.). you see, it is human nature to create multiple views of things. We create a right and a wrong side. (fyi, i'm not saying that my opinion is anymore right than anyone else's is). because it is human nature to create contrasting views, the world will always be at our until human beings no longer exist. in science, human beings create a "perfect" laboratory setting so that many different variables are controlled to make testing most convenient. so can scientists really claim that there results are exactly what you'll find in reality? you might get something close to it but never exactly it.

so i say, respect other people's beliefs and hope that they show you the same level of respect you deserve. in a perfect world, it would happen; but human beings are imperfect so it'll never happen. just try your best to be respectful! :)

I agree with you too! ^_^
 

lady_sati

sarNie Adult
since im new in this thread,
i'll just respond to the topic starter's comments.

i have never been to laos, but i have tons of relatives there.
and sure i want to visit there someday.

and it's true, and i'll be honest,
when i think of Laos, i think of poor people and dirty children.
and i dont mean that in a bad way,
but that's what been put in my head from a young age.

i definitely know that laos people are all not poor.
my cousins live there, they are educated and have computers, tv, etc.
true, although their house may not be as built as ones here in the state,
over there, it's enough for them.

and of course some negative things to be said are from visitors.
when you're bombarded with kids and people trying to sell you many things,
you would definitely feel pressured and thus gaining a negative view.
my father goes to laos every other year, so from what i hear, it's from him.
and my father is not a bad mouth talker. he wouldn't just say shiot to say shiot, you know?
my father was born in laos, he knows life there.
but i guess i need to see it for myself too.
and maybe all those things are when you're around tourist places, you know?

anyway, nope, i dont look down on laotian people.
they know more things than i do when im there, so of course they have the upper hand.
their french is probably better than mines too. :)

i think people who dont know how to travel wont know how to appreciate, right?
if you travel with a closed mind and ignorant head it's totally different
from someone who travels willing to learn and see as much as they can.

take care you guys/gals.
 
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