Since you agree with her baseless opinion, ask her is what she said was to imply that she don't have to believe in God (as long as she is a good person), since God is a loving father, and yet expect God to move on her behalf when she don't even want to believe on Him? The fact is God has forgive everyone, but not everyone want to come to Him that they may have life. So what does this tell you? That mean not everyone is His. =) So you see, for her to be His, she must believe and obey Jesus commands. Refer back to my last post about Jesus responses to the Jews.
Shamanism & Christianism
- Thread starter nkaujhmoob08
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Muddie Murda
smile...
For those who think they should be teaching religion, they should just save it. There is a better way to teach rather than to bring fear upon them or to put them down.
Will you hold regret, knowing that you are THE ONE who built a wall blocking someone from reaching god? Teach it the wrong way, and the wall will be built by your own hands.
I meant someone who told me, "This will only build upon the happiness you already have." I thought that was the most thoughtful line ever.
Will you hold regret, knowing that you are THE ONE who built a wall blocking someone from reaching god? Teach it the wrong way, and the wall will be built by your own hands.
I meant someone who told me, "This will only build upon the happiness you already have." I thought that was the most thoughtful line ever.
HuabNag
sarNie Adult
I understand what you're thinking...people I know have being thinking about this question too.
Thank you
To Yeng:
Thank you very much for replying to my post. I didn't expect u to reply, but u did. This tells me that you really care about your god, but you didn't really prove anything new to me yet?
I agree that my point is just opinion, but it is logical if you take your time to think about it. Logical reasoning is what I'm using, not a book. Also the answer from the book is not always right because sometimes people misprint them. Some members already mentioned this so I don't need to repeat it again. But you haven't clearly proved my point wrong, instead you contradict it. You said god is the creator but his is the father to those who believe in him. He adopts people who believe him which mean he is not the creator, according to your statement. Adoption means you're not giving birth to them. IF you find it is difficult to understand think of your situation: your father and you.
If he really forgives everyone like you claimed then why bothers to care if they want to believe him or not. If he still care then that's mean he still have grudge on the people who didn't believe him. A True God should have true heart, not a selfish heart that want everyone to do what he wants. I think this could be just your god because he seems very selfish and closed mind. The god you created from your mind and thinking that people should do this or that. I'm sure if there is really a god, he would not be a selfish god like you have painted him.
Baseless opinions? You're saying as if people just suddenly woke up one day and taha!!! A Shaman appears. As if, Shamans didn't have history :shrug:
I've raised all my questions & doubts a few pages back & Yeng ended with satisfaction thinking she was convincing enough. But no...she reference me back the the bible, the same book I drew questions from.
I've raised all my questions & doubts a few pages back & Yeng ended with satisfaction thinking she was convincing enough. But no...she reference me back the the bible, the same book I drew questions from.
I can concede that it is just your opinion. Your opinion about God as a universal loving Father who forgive all His children is correct. However, not everybody is His children. John 3:16 basically states:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Notice the word "believeth" in this passage. That mean whoever does not believe in Him is excluded from having eternal life. Do you agree? Simple logic. This also come from John 1:12:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Again we see the word "believe" here also. This also mean that whoever does not receive Him is excluded from being His children. The words of Jesus against the Jews in John 8:42 is very clear:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Do you love Jesus? What your opinion seem to suggest is that you want to make God a loving Father and yet having disbelief in Him. The fact is God command that we believe in Him. We want to stick with what scriptures says, not how we feel. You stuck into the same trap the Jews did.
If people misinterpreted the Bible, then the problem is their interpretations. I did disproved your point by contradicting it using scriptures. My evidences come from verses. You show none. Hello, if i contradict your point then i am also arguing against it which in term support my arguments too.
I don't see how God is not the creator? If God adopts believers as His own, then He become a Father to the fatherless. That's because we have a new life in Christ. Now, your earthly father is one who gave you birth. God as a heavenly Father is the one who gave you an earthly father. When you're born again, you are born of God. You see the diff? You're not born of flesh anymore.
God desire that all be saved and are commanded to believe in the Gospel. But because His desire is not always accomplished, not everyone is willing to come to Him and be saved. So not everyone will be saved. He chastise those who are His. Say, right now, i could have be at the bank robbing some money. But i choose not to and be here instead.
So you're saying God is selfish because He wants people to believe in Him? Not at all. He chose to do that way to saved us. He didn't need to. God is all self sufficient why would He need anything?
Baseless opinion? I think that a bit mean there. She is entitle to her opinion as you are to yours but I just agree with her because I think she have really good points.I don't know but you make God sound so selfish. I thought Jesus was Jewish before he became well known.
When we talk about God and the Bible, we quote from the Bible. The Jews at the time of Christ were natural descendants of Abraham. They also believed in God --the same God that appeared to Abraham. Does that make them a child of God because they were born of being a Jew? Nope! Go figure. In the matter of the Word, we believe what God says, not apply unsavoury virtues for God to humour our own reasonings. That's what she is doing and among the rest of the unsaved.
KhoOnxNouxWanxJai
Staff member
I think this thread can be left open. We just need to keep the comments clean and don't directly target or bash another member personally. =].
HuabNag
sarNie Adult
I think argue in here is pointless because someone didn’t seem to understand or at least try to reason thing out. BUT ONE THING THAT I WANT TO SAY IS THAT NO RELIGION IS PERFECT AND DON’T PUT OTHER RELIGION DOWN BECAUSE ONE THINKS HIS OR HER IS THE BEST. WRITTEN DOCUMENTS ARE NOT ALWAYS PROVED THAT EVERYTHING IS TRUE. MANY THINGS THAT WRITTEN ARE JUST HUMAN INTERPRETATION (CONSIDER OPINION) NO ONE KNOWS IF IT IS TRUE OR NOT.
KhoOnxNouxWanxJai
Staff member
I don't think it is pointless at all, but rather interesting to see what people believe in. However, I agree that we shouldn't downsize or speak ill of any other religion or practice. Everything in this world is uncertain. So to bring another Religion down and push your own opinions on someone else is unnecessary.
To be honest I believe in God, but I don't have a religion because I don't believe in religion. I don't believe that any religion has any more moral rights than the other. I do practice Buddhism. I don't consider it to be a religion because Buddha never intended it to be one. As for Shamanism I can't really critique it or anything because I don't have in depth knowledge on it. Christianity, I don't have anything against the religion at all. I do feel pressured by the society around me to believe in Christianity and practice it. It is probably just because the people I live around are strong believers so they try to push their beliefs on me. From my perspective, I wouldn't have a religion. I don't like the idea of "Regardless of what you do pray to god and he will forgive you." I don't like the idea of being forgiven for committing sins such as murdering someone, raping someone, robbing someone. I believe that for sinful acts that are committed against others should be paid for through karma. I believe that even if we realize what we did was wrong we should face punishment with acceptance in order for true forgiveness. I don't know if that is what they really teach you in church to just pray for forgiveness, but from my experience people who tried to convert me have all said it this way. What if someone commits a murder and apologize and say they are sorry every time? Should they really be forgiven repeatedly even if they are really sorry every time? Consequences are an important part of humanity
I also have come across people who told me I will be going to hell because I don't have a religion. I thought this was hypocritical. I felt offended so I told the person, "Would god really condone what you are doing? Would god allow you to condemn one of his children to hell just because they don't have a religion? Is believing in god not enough? Why must we have to have a religion? I believe that god wants us to be god for our own self worth and moral values. I don't believe that good wants us to be god in exchange for a place in heaven."
To be honest I believe in God, but I don't have a religion because I don't believe in religion. I don't believe that any religion has any more moral rights than the other. I do practice Buddhism. I don't consider it to be a religion because Buddha never intended it to be one. As for Shamanism I can't really critique it or anything because I don't have in depth knowledge on it. Christianity, I don't have anything against the religion at all. I do feel pressured by the society around me to believe in Christianity and practice it. It is probably just because the people I live around are strong believers so they try to push their beliefs on me. From my perspective, I wouldn't have a religion. I don't like the idea of "Regardless of what you do pray to god and he will forgive you." I don't like the idea of being forgiven for committing sins such as murdering someone, raping someone, robbing someone. I believe that for sinful acts that are committed against others should be paid for through karma. I believe that even if we realize what we did was wrong we should face punishment with acceptance in order for true forgiveness. I don't know if that is what they really teach you in church to just pray for forgiveness, but from my experience people who tried to convert me have all said it this way. What if someone commits a murder and apologize and say they are sorry every time? Should they really be forgiven repeatedly even if they are really sorry every time? Consequences are an important part of humanity
I also have come across people who told me I will be going to hell because I don't have a religion. I thought this was hypocritical. I felt offended so I told the person, "Would god really condone what you are doing? Would god allow you to condemn one of his children to hell just because they don't have a religion? Is believing in god not enough? Why must we have to have a religion? I believe that god wants us to be god for our own self worth and moral values. I don't believe that good wants us to be god in exchange for a place in heaven."
HuabNag
sarNie Adult
I think u're right...different opinion make us learn about how different people think
I agree that one who commits sin should be punished regardless...
I came across these a lots and sometimes I just forget them because they will never see what we're trying to explain to them.
I agree. :bopping:
That's not how you deal with the evidence. If anything, just saying it isn't true or not always true is not good enough. On what basis or evidence do you based that assertion on, and specifically what is not true? If a text is divinely inspired then it must be true, so in this case we'll have to examine the evidence. Interestly, you brought up logical reasoning as oppose to faith or scripture. I'd like to know how your worldview can account for the laws of logic (A=A, A=A and not A, and either A or B.) These are logical absolutes we use in everyday life. They are the proper inference of thinking we go through which reflects these laws of logic. Our mind is able to think them and recognize them. We look for meaningful pattern and design all the time in everyday life, and tend to avoid contradictions. Now how do you account for the existence of the laws of logic? If you don't need to give an account for them then you're just ducking the question. I assume you must believe in logic in order for you to use logic. Otherwise you are begging logic - something you assume to be true the very thing you are trying to prove. The Christian worldview can account for these laws of logic, but I want to know from your own worldview?
Why would you be interested in knowing when it seems to me like you wont open your mind to others opinions, replies, beliefs? You already make up your mind so no matter what other people try to say, it's pointless to you.
:dance2: :dance2: :dance2:
That is the reason we put worldviews to the test. By using logical reasoning one must admit that there are logical absolutes, otherwise we would have self contradictory discussion. In other words, no truth can be establish without reflecting to the laws of logic. The Christian worldview could account for these logical absolutes NOT by postulating God's existence, but rather starts from one's own experience and then draw conclusion from it. Christian apologist like myself defends the truth of the Christian worldview and exposes the flawed of other worldviews. Not only does denying God's existence undermine rationality, you must use logic to argue against God. See where I'm going? Suppose Shamanism is true, how do you account for the laws of logic? How does shamanistic worldview account for the problem of evil? How about ultimate reality itself? What about human ethics of right and wrong? The Christian worldview can, but I'd like to hear from your worldview?
I'm not interest in debating about religion and I don't go around challenging other people's religion like you do. Practice what you preach.That is the reason we put worldviews to the test. By using logical reasoning one must admit that there are logical absolutes, otherwise we would have self contradictory discussion. In other words, no truth can be establish without reflecting to the laws of logic. The Christian worldview could account for these logical absolutes NOT by postulating God's existence, but rather starts from one's own experience and then draw conclusion from it. Christian apologist like myself defends the truth of the Christian worldview and exposes the flawed of other worldviews. Not only does denying God's existence undermine rationality, you must use logic to argue against God. See where I'm going? Suppose Shamanism is true, how do you account for the laws of logic? How does shamanistic worldview account for the problem of evil? How about ultimate reality itself? What about human ethics of right and wrong? The Christian worldview can, but I'd like to hear from your worldview?
opcorn:
HuabNag
sarNie Adult
Thanks for saying...once a person has his/her mind set...there's no point of discussion on the topic...
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