Shamanism & Christianism

[Theist23]

You do not know because to you Christianity is close to perfection, 99% accuracy. You've made up your mind already. That will be a little assignment for you then...research!!! I'm sure you KNOW the study of science raises questions, disagreements, etc. Controversies in the Bible/controversies in Christianity is actually a very popular subject. Don't believe me? Google it. I mean different Christian churches can't even agree with each other. Let's take the death penalty for an example. Most Evangelical religious leaders support it. However, other churches are against it. What I'm trying to say is, it's what the people in the churches are getting from their preachers. All preachers are supposedly God's messengers, yet they preach different things. They're taking what's in the Bible and reiterating in their own words, their own perspectives. How is any of that consistent with what really is in the Bible?

You are all for the pros and claims to know nothing about the cons of Christianity. Like I said, you've already made up your mind. I feel it is a waste of my time and everybody's time to educate you. You can say likewise about me. I just wanted to point out the discrepencies I've heard of and read about. I am not saying any of this because it is convenient to say. I am no expert in Bible studies or in any religious studies. I study humanitarian and different religious groups in a broad perspective. I do not know everything, but do pay attention to issues that are intriguing to me. Issues that you, a dedicated Christian might overlook.

I got born again back in 2006. I looked at the evidence and became more convinced which lead me to Christianity. So for 4 years I did my research and still am today. There will always be controversies in everything. So you’re saying because there are controversial in the bible and in Christianity, therefore we should not believe it? It is a fact that different churches disagree on certain things because we have different interpretations of things in the scriptures. But as long as we believe the “key” doctrines, then we are a believer. It does effect whether or not someone is a Christian or not. It just mean we have different opinions about it. Not everybody will see eye to eye. What is important is that we all agree that Jesus is Lord, died for our sins, rose again, and that God loves us etc…

Everybody is a sinner before God. Every sins committed under the OT, God wiped them off. Reason why people support death penalty is because they still want to follow OT Mosaic law that God gave them. In the NT, Jesus came to save and forgive sins and he replace the Mosaic law with love. The law was still in effect at the time of Jesus. It wasn’t until after his resurrection, God saved us by grace, not by observing the Mosaic law. That is why people do not want to support death penalty. See the difference? You got DEATH on one side, and GRACE on the other side. But the truth is, no man can live up to God’s standard. We are now usher into the age of grace preaching the love of Jesus to the world. Not killing and stoning people to death - that was all done away with! The bible is very consistence. It is not if you taken things out of context. Also when people like to do what they want other than what the bible says then you have a problem. You have to see it with your heart.

I know the cons. Every bible believing Christians knows this. The cons are mostly misrepresented in the public media because there those who appose religion and what it has done. Religion tend to bind people up and I do agree. But those that appose religion are also stubborn. Jesus came to set the captives free. Christianity is good, it brought a lot of great principles into the world. Nowhere does we’re commanded to kill or harm people. We are told to love our enemies. I didn’t made up my mind. I knew this stuff already. Look at yourself. You study Humanitarian. Secular Humanist are secular they don’t believe in God. Stalin was a humanist he persecuted religious people. Chimpanzees fights all the time in the animal world. It’s a self hungry human nature woman. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove? Even if people dont believe in God, they disagree all the time. OMG why?

 

[kaab nis]

we're going in circles again...although it's interesting reading what ceda_lee and Yeng has to say...

 

[Theist23]

Let's talk about evidence. By evidence i mean you cant proof 100% certainty cause they are two different things. However you can still show that it is plausible. For example, science come up with theories all the time and try to explain the phenomenon in the universe. They could be wrong, science changes their theories when new better theories come up. Science cannot explain everything but they could use theories and gather data to see what's more plausible or not, and they do a good job behind the curtain too. Although they never observed many of these phenomenon and probably never will. Well, if scientists could do that then historians could too. They take the facts that all scholars agree on,(NT scholars including the skeptical ones) using historical methodology and still able to defend the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a historical event that probably happened. If this is so, then it demonstrate a powerful case for Christianity. If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, Christianity is true. If this is false, there would be no gospel account, no faith, no church none today. Now for Shamanism, where is the evidence?

 

[nkaujhmoob08]

Let's talk about evidence. By evidence i mean you cant proof 100% certainty cause they are two different things. However you can still show that it is plausible. For example, science come up with theories all the time and try to explain the phenomenon in the universe. They could be wrong, science changes their theories when new better theories come up. Science cannot explain everything but they could use theories and gather data to see what's more plausible or not, and they do a good job behind the curtain too. Although they never observed many of these phenomenon and probably never will. Well, if scientists could do that then historians could too. They take the facts that all scholars agree on,(NT scholars including the skeptical ones) using historical methodology and still able to defend the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a historical event that probably happened. If this is so, then it demonstrate a powerful case for Christianity. If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, Christianity is true. If this is false, there would be no gospel account, no faith, no church none today. Now for Shamanism, where is the evidence?

We don't have evidence. Koj twb paub tias peb shamanist doesn't have anything except shaman. =) you go ask them!

P.S.
god is my hero!

 

[akawhat]

Let's talk about evidence. By evidence i mean you cant proof 100% certainty cause they are two different things. However you can still show that it is plausible. For example, science come up with theories all the time and try to explain the phenomenon in the universe. They could be wrong, science changes their theories when new better theories come up. Science cannot explain everything but they could use theories and gather data to see what's more plausible or not, and they do a good job behind the curtain too. Although they never observed many of these phenomenon and probably never will. Well, if scientists could do that then historians could too. They take the facts that all scholars agree on,(NT scholars including the skeptical ones) using historical methodology and still able to defend the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a historical event that probably happened. If this is so, then it demonstrate a powerful case for Christianity. If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, Christianity is true. If this is false, there would be no gospel account, no faith, no church none today. Now for Shamanism, where is the evidence?

so u are saying that christianity has been proven 100%

 

[Theist23]

so u are saying that christianity has been proven 100%

You're not listening to what i wrote. "Proof" does not aim at absolute historical certainty. Any event that occurred in history, historians attempt to decide the matter using known data in order to reach conclusions. Some data are more stronger than others and carry more weight. Take some ancient antiguity for example:

1. Lucretius - 55-53B.C. The time span between the original and the earliest copy is 1,100 years. Number of copies survive were 2.

2. Plato - 427-347 B.C. Earliest copy is 900 A.D. Time span between the original and the earliest copy is 1,200 years. Number of copies survive were 7.

3. Caesar - 100-44 B.C. Earliest copy is also 900 A.D. Time span is 1000 years. Number of copies survive were 10.

4. Aristotle - 384-322 B.C. Earliest copy is 1,100 A.D. Time span is 1,400 years. Number of copies survive were 49.

5. Homer Iliad - 900 B.C. Earliest copy is 400 B.C. Time span is 500 years. Number of copies survive is 643.

Which one of these ancient antiguity is the most reliable?

The most reliable manuscript copies of ancient antiguity is #5 Homer Iliad. Why?

Because when the original book was written within 900 B.C., the earliest copy found was in 400 B.C. It takes 500 years to get 643 copies survive. The rule of thumb is the time span closer to the original is more reliable. The greater the copies survive the better. Now let's comparing Homer's Iliad with the New Testament bible alone.

Homer Iliad - 900 B.C. Earliest copy is 400 B.C. Time span is 500 years. Number of copies survive is 643.

New Testament Bible - 1st century A.D (Most historians dated between 50A.D-70A.D and at most 100A.D). Earliest manuscript copies we have is 70A.D since the time of Jesus between 30A.D-33A.D. They were written so short after the life of Jesus. But as said, 100A.D at most. So we have less than 100 years from the original to the earliest copies, and the number copies survive we have is over 27,000 surviving manuscripts. Over 5,600 copies in Greek alone. There are more ancient antiguity to compare but this is just a few that i use. like i've said, we're only talking about probability not 100% certainty. Notice that in every secular antiguity we have no originals as well. Should we throw them all away too?

Reference:

http://www.carm.org/manuscript-evidence
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/bib-docu.html
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6068

 

[ceda_lee]

Goodness! So much to read.

“The cons are mostly misrepresented in the public media because there those who appose religion and what it has done.”

The cons are mostly misrepresented in the public media?? Regardless, they’re cons. They’re brought up because people ask questions. How people interpret or present them is personally up to them. I think you’re just saying there are cons, according to some people, people like me, BUT to you they’re not. They’re just misrepresented. You said I am ignorant of history, science, evidence, etc. I say the same about you. The cons and pros are studied equally. I’m not just speaking of pros and cons as in what are the goods and what are the flaws in the Bible. I’m also talking about whether the information presented in the bible is reliable or not. Like you mentioned, scientists formulate theories. They find evidence to support them. On the other hand, there will be those who will question its credibility and will gather their evidence to make them implausible.

“But as long as we believe the “key” doctrines, then we are a believer. It does effect whether or not someone is a Christian or not. It just mean we have different opinions about it. Not everybody will see eye to eye. What is important is that we all agree that Jesus is Lord, died for our sins, rose again, and that God loves us etc…”

And that’s why I’m questioning its originality. For example, you have two Christians who both believe God is their savior, BUT, they both preach different things. Which one is God’s true message?

“Reason why people support death penalty is because they still want to follow OT Mosaic law that God gave them. In the NT, Jesus came to save and forgive sins and he replace the Mosaic law with love.”

The OT is about how God saved Isreal. The NT is about Jesus’s legacy. So even Jesus opposed God’s Law???

“Now for Shamanism, where is the evidence?”

The evidence? The evidence is what I see happening right in front of my eyes. A baby has a consistent cry at night. A shaman determines the baby’s spirit doesn’t like his name. The family puts together a ceremony and changed the baby’s name. The baby stops crying at night. That is true evidence to me. If you want to pray to your God and believe what’s in the Bible and hope to see his face someday, you go on ahead. I have nothing against that.
Shamanism has existed since the beginning of time on every continent. It is the oldest way of healing. Have you done your homework? Dating back to 400 CE, Christian churches were responsible for the collapse of Greek and Roman religions. Then the Catholic churches eliminated local traditions and orchestrated campaigns with a goal to execute Shaman practitioners aka devil worshippers. With the spread of Christianity, the shamanic practices of many cultures were virtually wiped out. Hm…a dominating culture/religion wipes out their competition? What does that tell me? Historically speaking, Christianity and Shamanism co-existed and will continue to co-exist.

We believe and are convinced that what we believe is the truth. Because it’s consistently passed on generation to generation. It is what we inherited from our very first ancestors who set foot on earth.

Many Christians claim they too are convinced that God is the creator, their savior. Then why dig and dig for the absolute truth? If you believe it, isn’t that enough. I mean, isn’t that what faith is about? It’s like, you’re questioning your faith, but at the same time you speak like you stand behind it.

Need more? I’m tired. Haha!

 

[Theist23]

And that’s why I’m questioning its originality. For example, you have two Christians who both believe God is their savior, BUT, they both preach different things. Which one is God’s true message?

It depends on what they are preaching about. For example, someone could preach about God's sovereignty and the other preach free will. NT theology is common among bible believing Christians. People will always come up with their own theology, but the importance is what does the scripture says. If what they're preaching is contrary to the scriptures then you could say they're heresy. Another example is, if the bible says Jesus was born through a virgin woman, but someone come along and change it to something else then we know that is a distortion.

The OT is about how God saved Isreal. The NT is about Jesus’s legacy. So even Jesus opposed God’s Law???

Jesus was accused of breaking the law by the Jews. For example, He was healing people on the sabbath and claims to be equal with God. The fact is the law was only temporary giving to convinced the Jews for their sins until Jesus came.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

In other words, to be right with God one must keep the whole law. But the law cannot justified the sinners. God gave the law to show our need for a Savoir. The Jews thought otherwise. This is common among hmong people today too. We think that if we could just do good, not lie, not murder etc (exactly what the law demands), then we could get to go heaven by how well we keep the law. That is wrong. Jesus came to fulfilled the law. This is an example of the "con" being misrepresented in the media. It's not clear. In order to recognized false teachings, you must understand the bible yourself. Dont believe it just because people say so. Check what they are saying if its true or not. Open the bible and look it up.

The evidence? The evidence is what I see happening right in front of my eyes. A baby has a consistent cry at night. A shaman determines the baby’s spirit doesn’t like his name. The family puts together a ceremony and changed the baby’s name. The baby stops crying at night. That is true evidence to me. If you want to pray to your God and believe what’s in the Bible and hope to see his face someday, you go on ahead. I have nothing against that.

That's because the baby is a sinner. The baby has sins from birth. See, the baby's nature is to rebel against his parent. Not obey! Likewise, we rebel against God at heart. The Gospel is what saves the sinner. Remember what Jesus says about being born again? No person can inherit heaven unless she is born again. It is a change of heart and become like a little child. I think when the Shaman determine the name, that's not really true. That is only what they thought to be out of coincidence. Changing the name will not stop baby to cry forever. Crying is a pain we all have. The ultimate reality is that sin is what cause pain, crying and sufferings. Shaman could possible change the name but that's not really the answer.

We believe and are convinced that what we believe is the truth. Because it’s consistently passed on generation to generation. It is what we inherited from our very first ancestors who set foot on earth.

How does Shamanism justify sin? There is no salvation in it. The bible says that we're sinners and we do not seek God. We will die in our sins unless we believe in the gospel we wont be saved. Ua neeg zoo xwb tsi dim. You need your sins to be forgiven. There is a price on our sins. Rua qhov nqe zug ntawm txujkev txhum yog kev tuag, tabsi txuj koob moov kws Vaajtswv pub dlawb yog txujsa ntev dlhaw moog ibtxhis lug ntawm Yexus. Jesus paid the price by dieing on the cross. He paid it with his blood. By faith alone you can be saved. If your startling point is based on the bible - from creation to 2010 AD, history will make sense. But if you already view history based on your Shamanist worldview, you will come to the opposite conclusion. The difference is your startling points and the interpretations you accept.

 

[mokka]

Interesting fact from both sides...

 

[ceda_lee]

With that said, I can only come to the conclusion that Jesus violated God’s commands. He spoke against God’s laws in God’s name. He attempted to change God’s orders. The law was only temporary giving until Jesus came...that is a statement of contradiction. Wasn’t the law altered by Jesus himself? Please elaborate.

And how does Jesus fulfill the laws?

Whoever said anything about baby stop crying forever? If a baby’s nature is to rebel against his parents, how do you we explain the psychological and physical attachment theories? Babies want to be with their caregivers almost at all times. They want to please their caregivers. I mean a baptized baby or a baby who’s accepted God’s grace doesn’t stop crying forever either right???

So…If we seek God, that ultimately justifies our sins??? That’s just crazy! There are no consequences. From what I know, if you have sinned and you died, you do your time before you can reincarnate. Yes, we believe there is a “dab teb” and a “ceeb tsheej.” Your good deeds will take you to heaven faster and your soul can be reincarnated sooner. Your bad deeds will cause you some delay. In most scenarios, you carried your bad deeds with you to your next life. For example, in this life, you robbed an old couple and poke the man’s eyes out. In your next life, you may possibly be born blind or handicapped. You’ll have to carry on that burden for the rest of your life. It’s like paying your debts. Now, that’s justification! It’s not as simple as, “oh, some Holy man died for your sins and you are forever forgiven.” There’s just no justification in that. It’s like a murderer walking away free because he finally found his way into God’s grace. That bothers me.

Let’s say a murder gets 10 years in prison without the possibility of parole. Even Christians get angry. They’d say there’s no justice in the criminal justice system. Why get angry when in the end, God will forgive his sins? You of all people should know that.

Really...can you practice what you preach??

 

[ceda_lee]

If there is no salvation in Shamanism, how do you explain why you and I both are here, at the same place, in the same time? How did I get here? Am I just another one of God's creation?

I don't believe in God. However, my existence is acknowledged.

Bottomline is, you have your reasons to believe what you believe and I have mine.

 

[rukmos]

In my opinion, there's no "Better" religion out there. If a person believes strongly enough about a certain religion and all that comes with it, then it will come true.

You don't believe in Shamanism, so therefore, it's not going to work for you. You believe in Christianity and that it'll be peaceful for you life. You strongly believe that, so therefore, your life is going to be peaceful or as much as can be.

 

[Theist23]

With that said, I can only come to the conclusion that Jesus violated God’s commands. He spoke against God’s laws in God’s name. He attempted to change God’s orders. The law was only temporary giving until Jesus came...that is a statement of contradiction. Wasn’t the law altered by Jesus himself? Please elaborate.

It would appear that Jesus did break the law. But when taking a closer look it is not the case. For everything to make sense, you will have to read the Old Testament and why God gave the law to the nation of Israel to Moses then up by the time of Jesus took 1300-1400 years. Archeology dated the Exodus somewhere about 1270 BC. To make it short, he came to set the captives free and he did went against those legalism Pharisees who accused him of breaking the law. As you know by this time there were man-made traditions that were added to it. They accused Him of being equal with God. Jesus says he is the lord of the sabbath. It wouldnt be wrong for him to change the law after all he is God.

And how does Jesus fulfill the laws?

No human beings can live up to God's standard of righteousness. God requires a perfect life and sacrifice that could cleanse us from our sins. Jesus died so that we may be forgiven. So basically Jesus kept all the commandments and live a righteous sinless life on your behalf. He live a life that pleases God. For all have sinned against God. God is all infinite and righteous so he punishes the sinner who break his law. The law is righteous and therefore punishes those who sin. How do we escape God's judgment? The answer is found in Jesus. That's what salvation is.

Whoever said anything about baby stop crying forever? If a baby’s nature is to rebel against his parents, how do you we explain the psychological and physical attachment theories? Babies want to be with their caregivers almost at all times. They want to please their caregivers.

Same way we want to be with God and do things that pleases him because he cares for us. But our very nature is sinful so we will never seek God. We cannot understand the things of God unless he choose to reveal it to us spiritually and open our eyes to see and our hearts of understanding to his words. Same way how the baby have to be train to listen and be obedience. That's what the law is. It tells what is right and wrong. But by being obedience to the law cannot save you. God never intended for people to keep the law to be save.

I mean a baptized baby or a baby who’s accepted God’s grace doesn’t stop crying forever either right???

Depend what you meant by baptism. You don't receive grace by baptizing. Salvation is a free gift of God. The water thang do not get you saved. It’s a fact we are commanded to do that through obedience. That is part of our works. What saves you is through the blood of Jesus Christ. We are baptized into Christ death, burial and resurrection by the works of God. Read Romans. Dont forget there is a literal that connects to spiritual truths.

So…If we seek God, that ultimately justifies our sins??? That’s just crazy! There are no consequences. From what I know, if you have sinned and you died, you do your time before you can reincarnate. Yes, we believe there is a “dab teb” and a “ceeb tsheej.” Your good deeds will take you to heaven faster and your soul can be reincarnated sooner. Your bad deeds will cause you some delay. In most scenarios, you carried your bad deeds with you to your next life. For example, in this life, you robbed an old couple and poke the man’s eyes out. In your next life, you may possibly be born blind or handicapped. You’ll have to carry on that burden for the rest of your life. It’s like paying your debts. Now, that’s justification! It’s not as simple as, “oh, some Holy man died for your sins and you are forever forgiven.” There’s just no justification in that. It’s like a murderer walking away free because he finally found his way into God’s grace. That bothers me.

Im aware of all that. We do not have to pay our debt. It's all done through Christ. Christ was raised from the dead for your justification. Vaajlugku says the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. If you depend on your righteousness to get you justify then you are lost. That's the difference between Shamanism and Christianity. Let me give you an illustration.

Say you drive 100mph at a 65mph zone and the police stop you. Do you realize you violate the traffic law? The cop gives u speeding ticket and now you must pay for your fine. For whatever reason you stand before the judge and you must justify what you did wrong, plus you dont have the money. Someone you never knew came in and pay your fine for you. As a result, you are justify freely and the judge now let you go. It's the same way for God. God justify the sinner by having faith in the works of Christ, not your own works. Your own works do not get you saved. You will never do good before God. Vaajtswv txojkev cais is perfection. No man stand before God good. We dont decide what is good or bad. God does. Peb ua txhaum taag. Christ provided that way for reconciliation. In Shamanism, you must serve your time. You either succeed or not. You dont really know how much bad deeds you have done last night. And to be honest, we carry more bad deeds than good. It's like you always have to look behind your shoulder to see if what you do is good or not. Well.... That what religion is. Jesus came to set me free from this. Why cant we just accept the fact that all have sin and fall short of God?

 

[mongstaness]

damn. 5 pages arguin back and forth trying to prove a point. you guys sure dont like to drop it. i feel like this thread is becomin a pzk topic thread....hahaha

 

[Theist23]

If there is no salvation in Shamanism, how do you explain why you and I both are here, at the same place, in the same time? How did I get here? Am I just another one of God's creation?

I don't believe in God. However, my existence is acknowledged.

Bottomline is, you have your reasons to believe what you believe and I have mine.

Creation and salvation are two different things. Creation is how everything came to be and salvation is kev cawm dim. We both have our own reasons but we both cant be right. Something must happen and brought us here right? I'm here because of an intelligent cause not random processes exploded million of years ago. If God exists then there is purpose and truth right? We're here to discovered exactly that. Be God centered not secular.

 

[D_D]

This is a very interesting topic and sensitive issues to all....

My opinion only: "Ua Neeb" DOES NOT HAVE A SO CALL BIBLE or NOT written anywhere because it is NOT something that people can go and write about it....It is something that the chosen person learned through spirits and their neeb. I don't think a Txiv Neeb or Paug Suab can go around and write about their advantures in details.......If one is NOT chosen, he/she will NEVER learn....Schooling will NOT help or teach one to become a txiv neeb or paug sauv. *That's why there is not PROOF IN WRITTEN.....But for many years/century, it's a religion that has been practice from generatioins to generations for the HMONG people.

@ yeng
Your posted earlier: "ah aha! Life would’nt still go around if it wouldn’t be by the grace of God. You’d better be thankful he didn’t flood this generation. You should read the bible with an open mind."

How do you know that God is a "he"?????? Can you prove that?

 

[akawhat]

if god created this universe..then who created god?

 

[ceda_lee]

Your interpretation of some of the issues we’re going back in forth about is quite different from other Christians I’ve spoken to before. That’s the thing…it’s never consistent.

Oh gosh…all these doesn’t make much sense to me.

“Salvation is a free gift of God.”

No way. You literally have to give and entrust your life to him before receiving the benefits. How is that a free gift?

“Why cant we just accept the fact that all have sin and fall short of God?”

Because that is not true to all. Why can’t you accept that not everybody believes in God? Most people are smart enough to determine what is better for them selves. It’s not up to anyone else to decide.

“Creation and salvation are two different things. Creation is how everything came to be and salvation is kev cawm dim. We both have our own reasons but we both cant be right. Something must happen and brought us here right? I'm here because of an intelligent cause not random processes exploded million of years ago. If God exists then there is purpose and truth right? We're here to discovered exactly that. Be God centered not secular.”

And you’re assuming your right? Purpose and truth also exist in my religion at the absence of God.

 

[Theist23]

if god created this universe..then who created god?

You are begging the question presupposing that God is a contingent being. By definition, God is eternal thus exists necessary. Even if God require an explanation, He exists through the necessity of His own nature. Thus, removing any chance of having an external explanation. For example, to recognize the best explanation of "X", you don't need an explanation of explanation "X". This would only cause more problem. If the best explanation is always required an explanation, then we're stuck into infinite regression and we will never get an answer of anything. Contingent things depend on other things to exists. God exists necessary and not need to depend on anything.

 

[Theist23]

Your interpretation of some of the issues we’re going back in forth about is quite different from other Christians I’ve spoken to before. That’s the thing…it’s never consistent.

Perhaps you should read the New Testament first and then we can talk about it because it's no use if you haven't read it. It's the same way for science. I cant go around talking to someone who doesn't understand science. Both must understand science. It wont be consistence because it is like a 3D picture. You have to bring your eyes together and zoom into the picture to see the figure. Once you see it you will be like " Oohh"!!! And the reason why there is disagreement in the Christian circles is because of this. One sees it different from another, but it is still rooted in the scriptures. Peb pom plooj plooj. Christians and non-Christian alike. It's like we know it but then we don't know it too.

No way. You literally have to give and entrust your life to him before receiving the benefits. How is that a free gift?

You cant come to God unless God draws you. It is the grace of God that draws the person. The entrust comes after. What you're saying is that one must place her faith in God in order to receive the free gift. But salvation is the work of God. You still cant earn it on your own human merits. Sure you must believe. You have your part on this.

Because that is not true to all. Why can’t you accept that not everybody believes in God? Most people are smart enough to determine what is better for them selves. It’s not up to anyone else to decide.

People could decide because they have free-will. Do you believe in God's sovereignty? God's sovereignty says no man/woman can come to God unless God draws them by his grace. Only then they are free to choose because they never will.

And you’re assuming your right? Purpose and truth also exist in my religion at the absence of God.

Of course, that is the fundamental. You wouldn't disagree on this. But could your worldview account for them? If there is no God, there wouldn't be purpose. You can still have purpose and not believe in God. That is the beauty of free-will. But this doesn't mean God doesn't exist either. If you keep searching deeper you will come to God.