Issue of the Hmong grave in thailand

[mcl87]

ahhh...all i've got to say is...come judgement day whoever has done wrong will get what they deserve...as for "anti-hmong" your going back and forth shit is bs...your screen name speaks for itself...bugsy just totally showed you up...maybe you've become a bit more...i denno...OPEN?....ohhh bittersweet irony...and for your info...you call these people here ignorant but you see...ignorant knows ignorant best...i suggest you read over what you've said to all these people in here becasue you do owe them an apology...it's ok to have your own opinion but GOSH dont be rude about it....change your screen name it's so embarassing dont you thnk?

and you know, this issue i understand is very controversial and people such as myself get really emotional...although you may think all we do is whine and complain at least consider the facts...there are always two sides to each story...altho i do think some info that has been provided maybe a bit bias because most ppl who support this topic are hmong they will tend to be on the hmong side but looking at it as a human...it's so disturbing...all i want to know is the truth...i'm sick of reading complaints and complaints about other people complaining(hint hint)...i cannot stress it enough but yes! go ahead and have an opion but be open to others...dont just live in your own little bubble here...that just doesnt go for "anti-hmong" either...it goes for all of you:loool:...this is just one important lesson from philosophy...

philosophy is all about the truth...now dont get me wrong i've learned alot...the truth is just merely how you percieve it...

that documentation video that is being passed all over may be a bit biased too...if those bodies really were polluting the water then yea...i guess it would be logical to dig them up and move them some place else..as for boiling the bodies maybe it's for killing the bacteria that may be harmful to humans

on the other hand...why are only hmong bodies targeted? if those hmong people have been sick before then wouldnt other ppl (other ppl as in other ethnics" around them get the disease as well?

but really need to watch the actual documentation..not just a clip or two...ahh it's driving me crazy :shock:

 

[amaymoua]

I saw the one hour version... and I'm pretty sure they weren't worried about polluting the waters, because the remains were thrown back into the graves .... i'm not sure if they buried it afterward, but I'm pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the body's polluting the water....

Just say if, it was polluting the water, why did need to boil the bodys and keep only the bones? Why weren't they wearing masked? Safety suit? Why cut off the head? why put make-up on one of the body? Why play with the bones?

Think people....

 

[mcl87]

I saw the one hour version... and I'm pretty sure they weren't worried about polluting the waters, because the remains were thrown back into the graves .... i'm not sure if they buried it afterward, but I'm pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the body's polluting the water....

Just say if, it was polluting the water, why did need to boil the bodys and keep only the bones? Why weren't they wearing masked? Safety suit? Why cut off the head? why put make-up on one of the body? Why play with the bones?

Think people....

[post="74302"][/post]​

i wonder if the fact that ancient hmong people used to have blue eyes and lighter hair have to do with anything with the grave diggings...we're just so different..

"The Hmong at this time were said to have Caucasian/Asian features meaning they had blonde hair with blue eyes, others with black hair and blue eyes, and so on. Those who did have blonde hair were easily pinpointed by the Chinese troops and killed as a punishment to be part of the Chu Kingdom. Maybe this is the reason why we see a Hmong with blue eyes and light colored hair from time to time. The Hmong who escaped the genocide campaign fled back into the mountains and started a whole new life. The civilization the Hmong created in the Chu Kingdom was left behind to avoid persecution and Chinese assimilation. If you wonder why there are no structures that prove Hmong civlizatoin, do not be troubled for it is unknown what the Qin wrote down as their own that actually belonged to the Hmong. There is however, a mummy who was recently discovered in China`s Hunan Province in 1971 by Chinese archaelogists (Hunan Province is where the Chu Kingdom stood). Even more interesting is that it is more than 2,000 years old. (The Chu Kingdom fell 2200 years ago). Her body is still well preserved and the drawings on her caskets and on the piece of silk covering her coffin are designs unique to the Hmong. Even more interesting is that she has mostly caucasian features. Look for the link below under MUMMY to find out more. So far she is said to be Marquis Dai`s wife during the Han Dynasty. Today, her body is kept in Changsha`s Hunan Provincial Museum. A Chinese history professor suggested the idea that maybe she is Hmong."


source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/40107/viewall-page-19

 

[mcl87]

hahah the fact that some chinese people may be hmong themselves is crazy!!! that is so taboo...

source from above...

"do you know what i want...JUSTICE oceans of it and FAIRNESS rivers of it"

 

[ceda_lee]

I saw the one hour version... and I'm pretty sure they weren't worried about polluting the waters, because the remains were thrown back into the graves .... i'm not sure if they buried it afterward, but I'm pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the body's polluting the water....

Just say if, it was polluting the water, why did need to boil the bodys and keep only the bones? Why weren't they wearing masked? Safety suit? Why cut off the head? why put make-up on one of the body? Why play with the bones?

Think people....

[post="74302"][/post]​

OMG...something just clicked in my mind!!! A while back in my Ancient Chinese History course, I remember my Professor saying something about chinese people using deceased bone as a form of medication...is it just me or is it clear that the diggers are collecting bones...while watching the videos, you can see the diggers scrapping and cleaning the rotten remains off the bones....

Any thoughts????

 

[ceda_lee]

I've said this before and I will say it again...

Polluting the water??? FUCKEN BULLSHIT!!!

 

[mcl87]

I've said this before and I will say it again...

Polluting the water??? FUCKEN BULLSHIT!!!

[post="74338"][/post]​

hahah i agree! but what i wanna know is if these bones are being used for medication...for what kind of sickness is it being treated for? the way i see it the chinese and thai people who live there think that that land is theirs so they have the right to do whatever they want with it. but to me that's not right...to totally insult a whole culture like that is just disrepectful. if they actually took the time to learn about how the hmong burial riturals are like they'd respect us alot more...other than the material world hmong believe so strongly in a spirtual world also and to totally hault a person's journey for some silly medication is nonsense. maybe i dont understand fully for the use of hmong bones but still these people need to realize how much of an offense they have taken upon us.

our culture is totally unique like none other...but see that is how we are so vulnerable to critism, sterotype, ignorance, etc., etc...if there is one thing that our culture is good at doing it is finding moderation and adopting to things but at the same time we hold our grounds deeply.

if these bones were truely used as medication why cant those grave diggers find an alternative source? aren't other bones just as good as another? i wonder if those grave diggers are just seeking some sort of nutrition from the bones...like protein...if they are they can use chicken bones...or pork..beef...lots of other bones..something more humane...animals bones are even healthier...

but then agian are they just doing this just to insult us? hmm...

for all you ppl who have viewed the documentary..do you guys know anything about this? are these bones used for some kind of ceremonial ritual? i think we should look further in this topic...it's intresting...

 

[ceda_lee]

All asians use all sorts of herbs and weird things as medications...they always have stories behind them...my mom's raising all these weird looking herbs...and she's always telling me what they're good for...my dad's best friend is Laotian and he has all these weird branch looking or twigs and he's said they're medicine...I remember a few years back when some of my cousins sent some dried bugs to my parents...they said it was good for immunity and that it was suppose to cure toothaches...my grandfather saves antlers...he also said it's some sort of medicine...

Hm...I'm so curious now...I wanna know what they're doing to the collected parts...

 

[amaymoua]

All I have to say on this subject is why didn't they just move the body to somewhere else... like rest of the world ... why cut, boil, and ect to the body?

I'm pretty sure if it was them in return, they would feel the same thing we are feeling too.... disrespected........

I really can care less what they say on why they did what they did, because they know exactly what they were doing. If they had a good reason for doing what they did, why hide it.... why let the rest of the world see them as monsters? Why not give facts and detail to support their actions. Why ?

 

[sweetyaj]

mmm...jux wanna knoe does anyone knoe how i can reach mee moua...i would like to knoe wat i can do to help....thanx

 

[HuabNag]

Anyone here know about any fund raising for this issue. I think of the csu system is organized a meeting regardless this issue. If any one here is interesting, I will post more infor.

 

[sweetyaj]

count me in...but i live in new england...i don;t think i can so much

 

[amaymoua]

All I have to say, is that most of us aren't able to do much about this matter, but we all can learn something from this matter...


Teach each other with respect.

I know that after this incident some of the hmong aren't very fond of the Thai people, but keep this in mind , not all of them are bad... just because some stupid one did something that we don't agree to, don't take it out on the rest.

I'm sure that there are many Thai are mad as well, not just the hmong.

 

[mcl87]

here's one of the latest stories i've read from a local newspaper from wausau, wi


Local Hmong leaders ask anyone concerned about the displacement of graves at the Wat Tham Krabok refugee camp in Thailand to call Thomas Lee, Wausau's minority affairs director, at 715-261-6805, or Peter Yang, executive director of the Wausau Area Hmong Mutual Association, at 715-842-8390.

Multimedia
The letter sent by lawmakers about the video



Related news from the web
Latest headlines by topic:
US House of Representatives
Ron Kind
Condoleezza Rice

Powered by Topix.net



Advertisement

Posted February 5, 2006

Grave removal outrages Hmong

By Mark Multer
Wausau Daily Herald
mmulter@wdhprint.com

Vang Yee Her wonders when the persecution of the Hmong will end.


He has seen video footage of the dead being dug up and removed from a hillside cemetery outside the Hmong refugee camp where he once lived.


When he thinks of the images, he is saddened. He feels angry, he feels helpless and he wants answers. To Her, they portray yet another affront to a people without a country who sought refuge in a land that now won't even accept their bones.


"There's so many difficulties we face, why is this happening to the dead, also?" Her said through an interpreter while sitting in the living room of his modest home on Wausau's west side.


For 11 years, Her called the refugee camp at Wat Tham Krabok in Thailand home. He was lucky enough to come to the United States in the summer of 2004, after the U.S. State Department allowed some 15,000 residents of the camp to resettle here.


But he left behind relatives who died and were buried at the camp, and he doesn't trust reports by the Thai government that the graves were exhumed due to health concerns regarding the possible contamination of the water there.


He says the amateur video circulating in the local Hmong community shows the dead being ripped apart and treated like animals or garbage. And he's not alone in his appraisal of the video.


A group of eight U.S. legislators from Wisconsin and Minnesota, including Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Milwaukee, and Russ Feingold, D-Middleton, and Reps. Mark Green, R-Green Bay, and Ron Kind, D-La Crosse, has inquired about the removal of the graves on behalf of their Hmong constituents.


In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the legislators wrote, "We are deeply troubled by a disturbing video showing the appalling treatment of exhumed bodies, which is purported to have taken place at the Wat Tham Krabok gravesite. The images belie reports by the Thai government that the dead are being treated with respect."


The legislators asked the State Department to press Thai officials to make sure the graves are being handled with proper respect for Hmong funeral rites and rituals.


Removal of graves


Thomas Lee, Wausau's minority affairs director, says digging up a grave or desecrating it in any way is forbidden in Hmong culture. He says Thai authorities ought to understand Hmong rituals and beliefs, and he doesn't know why the graves would present a health risk now.


"These people have laid there for the past 30 years. Now the refugee camp is closed and now they are having this sanitation problem? It's unbelievable," Lee said. "The Thai people, or whoever dug the graves, have no respect for these families at all."


According to officials at the State Department, the Buddhist monks at Wat Tham Krabok asked that the graves be removed because the land wasn't approved for use as a burial site. The monks feared the corpses would contaminate the local water supply, and they wanted the land cleared for possible development.


The refugees at the camp were given four to five months' notice and the option of moving the graves themselves, State Department officials said. Two Buddhist organizations then were contracted to do the work in November, and the remains of about 900 refugees were exhumed and reburied in nearby cemeteries, according to reports by the Thai government.


Spiritual significance


Bao V. Xiong, 40, of Wausau says in the Hmong culture, ancestors' graves are used as spiritual guides. Hmong elders are revered in both life and death. When they die, family members make sure to bury them in a good place.


Family members return often to the site to maintain the grave and make sure it is not damaged. The Hmong believe that if their ancestors are buried in a place that is good and healthy, the spirits of those ancestors will grant them health and good fortune in their own lives.


"Right now we are still calling the spirits from the dead," said Xiong, who practices Shamanism and believes in reincarnation. "Every new year, we still call those from three decades ago. We light candles, incense, and call the spirits to eat."


Xiong, who came to Wausau from Thailand 14 years ago, said if a grave is destroyed, that person's spirit will no longer be there to bless the family.


State Department officials say those clearing the cemetery are adhering to their own Thai customs for handling the dead. That means cleaning the bones of any flesh before reburial and possible cremation, a ritual not practiced in Hmong culture.


"How they handle the body (in the video) is worse than an animal," said Peter Yang, executive director of the Wausau Area Hmong Mutual Association. "They just dismember the body, even use a knife to slit the throat and debone it. It's sickening."


Cultural strife


As a teen, Vang Yee Her, 48, was a foot soldier in the Hmong army. He fought alongside his father, his grandfather and practically an entire generation of Hmong men in the CIA-backed Secret War against the communists in Laos. After the communists took power and the United States withdrew its support in Laos and pulled out of the war in neighboring Vietnam, many Hmong were forced to flee their mountain homes and seek refuge in Thailand.


Her considered the Thai allies in the fight against communism, but he's not so sure anymore.


Last summer, Thailand's National Security Council announced plans to deport Hmong living illegally in the country, and in July the Thai government evicted thousands of Hmong refugees from their homes because they were classified as illegal immigrants.


Her's eldest son, Cheng Leng Her, and his son's family still live in Thailand, as does his grandfather, Chia Vang Her, a major in the Hmong army. After seeing the video of Hmong graves being exhumed, Vang Yee Her fears for the safety of his family members, and the safety of all Hmong living in Thailand.


"If they do this to the dead, what will they do to the living?" he said.


Yang, who came to the United States in 1976, still is trying to find out more information about the events at Tham Krabok and planned to speak with a refugee family scheduled to arrive in Wausau from the camp this week.


"It's difficult to accept that this actually happened to hundreds and hundreds of deceased people, Hmong refugees that had many hardships in their lives, and even after they die they cannot rest in peace," Yang said.


Xai Kha of the Daily Herald contributed to this story.