Shamanism & Christianism

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Theist23

sarNie Egg
The bible gives us clear instructions from the Lord,

In 1 Corinthians 8:4-13, the Apostle Paul clarify the issue of eating food offer to idols. Eating food offer to idols is not immoral (not wrong), because idols is nothing but an object. We are no worst if we eat it, and no better if we do not eat it. However, if a brother/sister who has a weak conscious, it is better not to eat it because if he/she fall into sin, then that is a problem. It is better not to eat it than to cause a brother/sister fall into sin. God also forbid the eating of blood - Leviticus 17:10-14. For life is also in the blood. Nkaujhmoob08 has made a wise decision to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus says " I am the way, the truth and life" - john 14:6. Not only does Jesus hold the truth, but He is TRUTH. I believe she will benefit a lot from it. Greatest decision one can ever make in this lifetime.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Right!

To me, perfection doesn't exist...at least Not in reality. That is why we all have different beliefs. I think sometimes people forget the reasons why they believe what they belive and apply religion to the wrong purposes. For example, shamans who use their gifts to make peoples' lives miserable. Or those who claim their 'dab' is better than your 'dab.' Even in Animism, there are differences. Like koj muaj koj dab qhua, kuv muaj kuv dab qhua. Doesn't mean your protectors are better than mine. What about all those Catholic preachers who molested those little boys??? Good & bad exist in all of us. It's not the religion itself. I think it's how you intrepret & apply it to life.
 

annae

sarNie Hatchling
wow this is heated subject

Before being biased to any religion...please do your research first

AND Religion is NOT something to laugh about nkaujhmoob08

I still believe in the traditional way

I don't know much about Christianity and i have nothing against Christians or their ways

I have shaman friends and from what they say is that shaman spirits and Christians god, they are all like brothers and sisters...so no matter what religion you believe in...both will being good faith..

no religion is better than the other..
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
wow this is heated subject

Before being biased to any religion...please do your research first

AND Religion is NOT something to laugh about nkaujhmoob08

I still believe in the traditional way

I don't know much about Christianity and i have nothing against Christians or their ways

I have shaman friends and from what they say is that shaman spirits and Christians god, they are all like brothers and sisters...so no matter what religion you believe in...both will being good faith..

no religion is better than the other..
I propose that Christianity seems more plausible than all world religion even though there are many religion that teaches good things. However, when one investigate other philosophies and such movements, Christianity rises to the top. Most historians and 75% of critical scholars support the overwhelming evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and the reliability written gospel account which demonstrate a powerful case for Christianity.

The idea of salvation which is a free gift by God’s grace, how man are sinful and through faith man can have access into heaven is revolutionary. The heart of Christianity is Jesus Christ. He brought a very successful message of love and peace (Kingdom of God) to sinners, he has the power to forgive sins, claim to be divine and grant sinners eternal life through faith in Him. No other religious leaders die and return demonstrating the eternal life that one can freely have. It offers assurance of salvation that one can know if she’s really saved or not. Unlike all other religion, one must depend on human merits. So if anyone consider any beliefs at all, Christianity makes the most positive claim historically.
 

kaab nis

sarNie Hatchling
I'm so itching to say something but I won't because it'll only make things worse...so I'm going to go back to what I said earlier...

we all believe in the same thing it just comes in different shape and form. At the end of the day there will be those who are good and those who are bad no matter what their religion is.
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
I'm so itching to say something but I won't because it'll only make things worse...so I'm going to go back to what I said earlier...

we all believe in the same thing it just comes in different shape and form. At the end of the day there will be those who are good and those who are bad no matter what their religion is.
No we dont. Explain what you meant by "same thing"? I took Christian Theology but i want to try some Shamanism Theology too. ha ha ha! However, i do agree that at the end of the day we both can be moral or immoral. But can your worldview account for the existence of morality? This will be fun. :D
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
No we dont. Explain what you meant by "same thing"? I took Christian Theology but i want to try some Shamanism Theology too. ha ha ha! However, i do agree that at the end of the day we both can be moral or immoral. But can your worldview account for the existence of morality? This will be fun. :D
Can the practice of Animism account for the existence of morality? It's as simple as, ua zoo tau zoo, ua phem tau phem, in other words, you do good deeds & you get good things in return. Morality in Christianity is recorded in the bible. Our teachings are passed down generation to generation. We don't have a book that lays out exactly what we have to do. That doesn't make our beliefs any less moral than yours. Like I said before, it's what you make of it & how you apply it to life. Just because someone memorized the bible doesn't make that person a person of morals. You have to practice what you preach.
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
Can the practice of Animism account for the existence of morality? It's as simple as, ua zoo tau zoo, ua phem tau phem, in other words, you do good deeds & you get good things in return. Morality in Christianity is recorded in the bible. Our teachings are passed down generation to generation. We don't have a book that lays out exactly what we have to do. That doesn't make our beliefs any less moral than yours. Like I said before, it's what you make of it & how you apply it to life. Just because someone memorized the bible doesn't make that person a person of morals. You have to practice what you preach.
You have not give an account for morality, but rather you just give an opinion about it. Within all creatures and objects every soul is different in nature than the things they inhabit. Such beliefs would lead to nature worship thus offering sacrifices in order to appease these spirits. Reason why morality is found in the bible is because they depend on God’s existence. Since God is the moral law giver, what I mean is that if morality dependent on God, specifically his rules and commands, then God decides what is right and wrong. By that I mean objective standard of morality exists. If what you’re saying is true concerning the way we want to make out of it, then how do you know what is right or wrong? You dont. You could only offer your opinions. You must have a standard by which to judge and i’d say God is that standard.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
I'm not sure if I understood you correctly then. We believe in a higher power, not God, that works in a cycle involving good and evil. When you die, what determines who you are and where you'll be after reincarnation is based on what kind of person you were before the afterlife. This probably makes no sense to you. Kinda like your preaching is not enlighting me.

And your account for the existence of morality is based on what's written in the bible? You believe God decides what's right & wrong. To me, that too is an opinion. You choose to believe what's in the bible. I choose to believe the teachings from my ancestors, which were passed down to my elders & to my parents. Because I can't reference or pin point to a phrase in a book, doesn't mean I don't know what's right and wrong. I know murder is wrong. You know murder is wrong. Do I believe in God, no.
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
I'm not sure if I understood you correctly then. We believe in a higher power, not God, that works in a cycle involving good and evil. When you die, what determines who you are and where you'll be after reincarnation is based on what kind of person you were before the afterlife. This probably makes no sense to you. Kinda like your preaching is not enlighting me.

And your account for the existence of morality is based on what's written in the bible? You believe God decides what's right & wrong. To me, that too is an opinion. You choose to believe what's in the bible. I choose to believe the teachings from my ancestors, which were passed down to my elders & to my parents. Because I can't reference or pin point to a phrase in a book, doesn't mean I don't know what's right and wrong. I know murder is wrong. You know murder is wrong. Do I believe in God, no.
I do not understand what you mean by “higher” power other than not being God. I’ll define the term God for you since you didn’t provide a definition. I think you are a little bit confuse.

God: The one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/God

By God, I mean the God of the bible who is all powerful and all knowing. Not the God or gods of Animism who is far from his creation and does not care about human needs etc. The Christian God presents a loving God who cares about humans and interacts in his creation. God is the only one that determines our comings and goings. There is no "higher” power than God. Animism is the idea that nature is enfused with spirit/power. This sounds like a belief in the creation instead of the Creator, and is also probably the most wide spread in tribal cultures. Everything is god, the river is god, you are god, i am god, the trees is god etc. The bible speaks against human philosophy because it undermines and takes our mind off the emphasis of Christ and put it on the world. What separate Christianity from Animism is that man is sinful, and that no man can be good enough to obtain salvation. Salvation can only be obtain through God’s grace, not acts of self righteousness.

The bible is God inspired word and divine revelation. Every honest Animist who is a free-thinker should read the bible. Cant call yourself a free-thinker unless you are able to read the #1 book in the world about the most famous person in history Jesus Christ, Son of God. What you’re saying then is that believe in morality is only an opinion. Of course you know what is wrong, God’s general revelation has been made plain to you even creation is evidence for the existence of God. Im not saying you don’t know, im saying that you cannot account for them. Why is it wrong to murder? To say that it is wrong to murder does not account for it. Do you think you will ever be good enough and be absolutely sure you will make it in the next life? How sure are you?
 

mongstaness

sarNie Adult
uhh. how about we just not talk about religion PERIOD.

religion is and will always be a touchy topic to talk about. whether it be here, in society, in class, if you're just gonna attack one another about it, might as well just not talk about it in the first place.
 

YM_gurl

sarNie Oldmaid

There are types of sickness that can be healed. But mostly likely it depends on the person's charm. Some Shaman can heal cancer people based on what I saw on my previous life (it has to do with voo-doo or whatever you call it & so on more to it you just dont know) I believe it works spiritually. Moreover, I can not judge that a shaman is magically powerful all the time because some sickness can not be heal. Not 99% by the flesh can only be cure. Some are even worse and got better. So it doesn't matter if your sickness come from all above that because in the end, its either you to choose to give up on shamanism or die in god whichever suits your belief. And I chose to die in god (that doesn't mean that i die physically, but die spiritually) I suffered and cried out to him and with all that, he had cured my sickness and I am very thankful to him. Each day I feel great. =)
:Your examples hasn't proved to me anything, yet you're only making assumptions about it or much more like relativism? I'm not sure what you're really trying to tell me whether it is false or true cause I can tell you more about other real experiences. You seemed lost by my statement.


haha wow. what happened to you now? defending shamanism now? weren't you the one that got hella negative shiet to say at first. haha! lost by your statement? girl, check your post. let's see whose the one making assumptions.

Absolutely! This is why I said I chose god over shaman. So that I don't have to do all those hard working to go heal the wounds. =)

Well, yeah. you have to work hard to get what you want. lmao. you can't be lazy. if you are, you will failed. :)

Not all christian go to church. I might be considering one of them that would listen and socialize with other believers through the net. That's another way to do it too. AND it's free! Therefore, you can not judge me if I still need to go to church to become a christian. =)

wtf? That's the first. not all Christian's go to church? then how does it work? lmfao.
how do you believe in God when you are not going to church?



ROFL! You're giving me laughter. You seemed to not understand the expectation in god. Who would ask "God, please land me money on my bed by tomorrow morning when I wake up?" hahah! Okay, is it funny? of course because your example is just as funny as this too.
God doesn't expect to give out something that would intimidate you right ahead. Think about this, isn't it scary if you ask god or spirit to turn on the water on the bathtub or turn on the light? This is something that doesn't exist to god but for demons or spirit, maybe? ooo goodluck to you then.
Well of course you have to work your ass off to go do it alone in order to get that money. Let me tell you, some people do think about god and pray to him all the time to fulfill what they need while some don't. Maybe some have higher faith than others. Some faith aren't the same. Some may have tougher time than other. For example, someone is extremely thinking of winning that lottery pot while other is thinking of to become rich without any hope or stress. You see? With this, I hope you understand what I mean.


Of course i don't understand the expectation of God. I believe in Shamanism so anything you say about God. I won't understand.
It's not funny, it's to prove to you that God does not exist. Well to me it doesn't. :)

haha damn right that exist. it's not demons for your information. it's sprirt. However that is a good example, i guess you didn't see the way i did. You see, we're not on the same page. anyways say, funeral wise. I don't know about people who goes to church, how they handle their funerals and all but for people who believes in shamanism. When one passes away, relatives donate money without asking or praying. So, for people who goes to church, when you have a family emergency like that, you can pray but God isn't coming anywhere to hand you a bundle of money. get my point now?

I don't believe it. People who goes to church always pray. They even admit to talk to God. lol You are half and half.


I didn't believe the part when the shaman interpret about your sickness (thaum yus mob es xav tuag lawm xwb). Sometimes they could turn your way into something else. I was offended when the shaman said "koj tus ntxhais yuav ua neeb". I thought that maybe I'm going to stick with it forever. Luckily I was stressless on that. Because at the same time I was thinking of god too. I've come to realize that god has a way out and gives more hope. I don't see if a shaman could ever give you a route to where it could make you comfortably happy. (And again yes these are my opinions only.) Back to the question, I believed in everything that shaman has or work for but not when it comes to what i just told you above.


how, i mean why did you get offended? it's nothing bad. All the shaman said was your the chosen one, to be a shaman.. haha
i don't get it but ok.

They play tricks on human. They betrayed god. They sent sickness to humans. And sometimes for no reason..ETC..forgot
True, they do play tricks on human, that's why you have to do what they want. offer them money and food then they leave you alone.
No, i disagreed. There is always a reason. seriously. it's like you, not paying for your credit card bill and you get charge. there's always a reason. lol


Oh, all these information are from my head (my knowledge) and some are from my experience (reality) and some are from few believers that I met online. (strong believer) Some I heard it from people to people and radio as well.
So it's all mixing.. im not sure what got into me too. xxxxDDDD
and yes this can go on and on..never ends..
i thought so. :)
 

YM_gurl

sarNie Oldmaid
uhh. how about we just not talk about religion PERIOD.

religion is and will always be a touchy topic to talk about. whether it be here, in society, in class, if you're just gonna attack one another about it, might as well just not talk about it in the first place.
Agreed.

I respect other people's religion but if they disrespect mine, heck no. it's not cool.
you got something to say? sure i do too. haha yeah im a bitch. :)
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
i thought so. :)
Creation is empirical evidence for the existence of God. They are up for peer reviews. There are billions of people agree with her faith even critical scholars and historians wrote about it. Now for Shamanism WTF is that? ha ha ha!
 

nkaujhmoob08

sarNie Adult
haha wow. what happened to you now? defending shamanism now? weren't you the one that got hella negative shiet to say at first. haha! lost by your statement? girl, check your post. let's see whose the one making assumptions.
I think you might need to re-read this post: "But most likely it depends on the person's charm."
How is this defendable? And i respect this so don't carry yourself with confusion thoughts any futher.
About Assumption? You were making assumption first, then I made after. Now what?

wtf? That's the first. not all Christian's go to church? then how does it work? lmfao.
how do you believe in God when you are not going to church?
If only you desire or know to communicate spiritually through him, he will come.
And you can still use online as a source to get more information. You will see how it works to you.

Of course i don't understand the expectation of God. I believe in Shamanism so anything you say about God. I won't understand.
It's not funny, it's to prove to you that God does not exist. Well to me it doesn't.
If you're purposely misunderstanding my view, what right do you have for me to understand you too?
God doesn't exist? God doesn't exist to you because you failed to see him. =)

haha damn right that exist. it's not demons for your information. it's sprirt. However that is a good example, i guess you didn't see the way i did. You see, we're not on the same page. anyways say, funeral wise. I don't know about people who goes to church, how they handle their funerals and all but for people who believes in shamanism. When one passes away, relatives donate money without asking or praying. So, for people who goes to church, when you have a family emergency like that, you can pray but God isn't coming anywhere to hand you a bundle of money. get my point now?
I highly recommended you to read this to help backup your examples! Goodluck :D
http://ezinearticles.com/?Godly-Expectation&id=249537

I don't believe it. People who goes to church always pray. They even admit to talk to God. lol You are half and half.
You mean by spiritually?

how, i mean why did you get offended? it's nothing bad. All the shaman said was your the chosen one, to be a shaman.. haha
i don't get it but ok.
What if that was you? What would you say? What can you do? You just gonna take their words and become kiag a shaman? Really? That sucks then. You're lacking of hopes. At least I got my way out so i don't know about you. =)

True, they do play tricks on human, that's why you have to do what they want. offer them money and food then they leave you alone.
No, i disagreed. There is always a reason. seriously. it's like you, not paying for your credit card bill and you get charge. there's always a reason. lol
I figured that there are different type of spirits. Some could randomly play with you for no reason.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
I do not understand what you mean by “higher” power other than not being God. I’ll define the term God for you since you didn’t provide a definition. I think you are a little bit confuse.

God: The one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/God

By God, I mean the God of the bible who is all powerful and all knowing. Not the God or gods of Animism who is far from his creation and does not care about human needs etc. The Christian God presents a loving God who cares about humans and interacts in his creation. God is the only one that determines our comings and goings. There is no "higher” power than God. Animism is the idea that nature is enfused with spirit/power. This sounds like a belief in the creation instead of the Creator, and is also probably the most wide spread in tribal cultures. Everything is god, the river is god, you are god, i am god, the trees is god etc. The bible speaks against human philosophy because it undermines and takes our mind off the emphasis of Christ and put it on the world. What separate Christianity from Animism is that man is sinful, and that no man can be good enough to obtain salvation. Salvation can only be obtain through God’s grace, not acts of self righteousness.

The bible is God inspired word and divine revelation. Every honest Animist who is a free-thinker should read the bible. Cant call yourself a free-thinker unless you are able to read the #1 book in the world about the most famous person in history Jesus Christ, Son of God. What you’re saying then is that believe in morality is only an opinion. Of course you know what is wrong, God’s general revelation has been made plain to you even creation is evidence for the existence of God. Im not saying you don’t know, im saying that you cannot account for them. Why is it wrong to murder? To say that it is wrong to murder does not account for it. Do you think you will ever be good enough and be absolutely sure you will make it in the next life? How sure are you?
I am sure enough. No other religion can convince me to convert over. How sure are you that everything in bible is true? It's just a bunch of words, wordS you chose to believe in. I can simply argue that your explanation for the existence of morality is invalid. Why? It's just what you learn from the bible. Do you actually know for sure? How? Because it's written in the bible?
 

Theist23

sarNie Egg
I am sure enough. No other religion can convince me to convert over. How sure are you that everything in bible is true? It's just a bunch of words, wordS you chose to believe in. I can simply argue that your explanation for the existence of morality is invalid. Why? It's just what you learn from the bible. Do you actually know for sure? How? Because it's written in the bible?
How are you sure? What are the good reasons for accepting your worldview and on what ground? I contend the Christian position to be the most plausible and have good reasons to accept for several reasons. Although one can never be 100% certainty, we should not detract this away from the discussion. What we do is determine if the reason for accepting it outweighs the reasons for rejecting it in the light of the evidence. I’ll provide 2 reason for my case.

1. We have historical documents that are far more greater and abundantly supported than any ancient text of antiguity. There are about 5,686 Greek manuscript, over 15,000 copies of other various languages that go back straight to 1st century and were written shortly after the death of Jesus Christ by eye witnesses and other contemporary accounts that corroborate with the NT bible writings. You take any secular works of literature and compare to the NT bible, the evidence is more supportive than all combine!

2. Jesus resurrection is regard to the possibility of being a historical event. 75% of critical scholars agree that Jesus tomb was empty. No scholars assume the bible is inspired prior to investigation, (I believe it is) - although one can come to that conclusion. To believed that this can be demonstrated is not the same as “proof”. I am reference to the probabilities that the resurrection is the most probable conclusion in the light of the factual evidence. Now if this is true, it demonstrate a powerful case for Christianity. After all, Christianity is based on Jesus resurrection.

I think this is clear. The bible is not what you think it is. It is a historical document written by historical figures who were either eye witnesses of the account and or secondary who were closer to the events. It speaks of real places in history that Archeology can verify. So now I leave it to you. H ahaha!

Where is your evidence? Tell us about Animism? Where are the peer reviews and such? LOL!
 

kaab nis

sarNie Hatchling
this is indeed a very touchy subject...

@yeng in what I mean that we all believe in the same thing is that we all want happiness whether a person choose the path of Christianity or Animism, etc they are satisfy with their beliefs and it's a person own desicion at how their life turns out. Often times we have people who convert back and forth and these people by the end of the day make a desicion to believe in things that are passed through thousands of years by families and friend. Just like how you believe in GOD, we believe in our ancestors. What makes it that we are walking the wrong path? From the things you write it seems like you're trying to prove us wrong that our way of thinking is not the right way. I appriciate your opinion, and yes the things you say are just OPINIONS too even if they are quoted by the bible or in written documents. You can't give us a written document and say it's valid and proof. thousands of years have passed already and those documents might have been changed but I don't know and you might not either so you choose to BELIEVE in what the Bible says and I choose to take it with a grain of salt. I've never read the Bible before and I probably will only glance at it throughout the future...it's not that I disrespect it, that's just how I feel...

In the end it's the things that we learn that shape who we are I guess...I don't even know if I make sense. lol

Creation is empirical evidence for the existence of God. They are up for peer reviews. There are billions of people agree with her faith even critical scholars and historians wrote about it. Now for Shamanism WTF is that? ha ha ha!
ok so that was pretty offensive...I'm trying not to sound mean and as civil as possible...so I'll be the better man...seeing from the things you wrote you wouldn't like it if people go "Christianity WTF is that? ha ha ha!" would you...ok I just lost track at what I was saying...anyways looking down on a religion and thinking you're all high and mightly just because your a Christian is pretty low...gotta admit that...and it doesn't make you or your belief look any better, but I guess the same thing can go for what I said right? in the end we all go round in full circle. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe and the world still goes round. Life still goes on, it has for centuries even when the Bible wasn't even created yet, even when Animism wasn't created yet...

OMG I feel like I'm attacking and I don't like to do that so I'll just keep it short and breathe a little...I guess I'll be back for more since I have a feeling people might respond back...it's pretty interesting and keeps me thinking...

peace out yo!
 
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