What Religion?
- Thread starter vilasaeng
- Start date
LOL i can feel this getting into a heat debate (a follower vs a non follower) so i'll just stop right here and not go on.. religion is too sensitive for me to touch base with..
believe in the teaching of all goodness, not the organization that claim goodness.. that's one of my moto.. ^_^
believe in the teaching of all goodness, not the organization that claim goodness.. that's one of my moto.. ^_^Before I say this don't jump down my neck..
Christian accusing the Muslim for killing other's non-Muslim so they could go see Allah as something unmoral and cruel and view the belief as a horrible religion.. But the facts that's during the crucade.. Christianity did exactly what SOME Muslim is doing..Killing the non-Christian believer..
When Amira say that people tells other people that their going to hell is kind of weird.. I mean I've study almost all religion and I found some gap FROM MY UNDERSTANDING in the religion.
Like Christian.. I question their "If you accept GOD into your life.. He's cleanst your sin and you'll go to heave." Or "If you believe in GOD you'll go to heave"
I mean.. What if someone murder someone.. And they accept GOD as their savor.. What then.. Are they still going to heaven..
Yes their might be argue that this particilar person won't because of the crime they comment.. But again.. Won't it be wrong to say.. You're still going to hell even if you accepted GOD.. Would the teaching itself goes back on it's own words..
Now the Muslim teaching.. Where it is still in the Qu'ran.. If you kill a non Muslim it's alright and you'll see Allah... Would Allah really see those who shed other blood just to see him..
Buddhist.. You're due to pay for your sin that you commit in the past.. at future life. It's very unfair because you don't know what you did in the past life.. To accomplish Nivarna.. You must get rid of all emotion.. So their won't be a feeling of need.. But isn't the need to get rid of all emotion still a need that human kind seek for..
For me there's gap in everything.. Hell and Heaven are right in your heart.. You could see god if your heart desire.. and if you know you done good.. And hell if you know you done something wrong..
But everyone have their own belief. That's what keep all the faith alive..
Buddhist believer believe there's karma.. And to get rid of those karma they must do good in this life and hope that next life they won't do the karma again..
Christian believe doing good for other and accepted GOD as their savor they'll go to heaven..
As for the rest I won't really MY UNDERSTANDING is clear.. So I WON'T SAY what I believe their faith is about..
Christian accusing the Muslim for killing other's non-Muslim so they could go see Allah as something unmoral and cruel and view the belief as a horrible religion.. But the facts that's during the crucade.. Christianity did exactly what SOME Muslim is doing..Killing the non-Christian believer..
When Amira say that people tells other people that their going to hell is kind of weird.. I mean I've study almost all religion and I found some gap FROM MY UNDERSTANDING in the religion.
Like Christian.. I question their "If you accept GOD into your life.. He's cleanst your sin and you'll go to heave." Or "If you believe in GOD you'll go to heave"
I mean.. What if someone murder someone.. And they accept GOD as their savor.. What then.. Are they still going to heaven..
Yes their might be argue that this particilar person won't because of the crime they comment.. But again.. Won't it be wrong to say.. You're still going to hell even if you accepted GOD.. Would the teaching itself goes back on it's own words..
Now the Muslim teaching.. Where it is still in the Qu'ran.. If you kill a non Muslim it's alright and you'll see Allah... Would Allah really see those who shed other blood just to see him..
Buddhist.. You're due to pay for your sin that you commit in the past.. at future life. It's very unfair because you don't know what you did in the past life.. To accomplish Nivarna.. You must get rid of all emotion.. So their won't be a feeling of need.. But isn't the need to get rid of all emotion still a need that human kind seek for..
For me there's gap in everything.. Hell and Heaven are right in your heart.. You could see god if your heart desire.. and if you know you done good.. And hell if you know you done something wrong..
But everyone have their own belief. That's what keep all the faith alive..
Buddhist believer believe there's karma.. And to get rid of those karma they must do good in this life and hope that next life they won't do the karma again..
Christian believe doing good for other and accepted GOD as their savor they'll go to heaven..
As for the rest I won't really MY UNDERSTANDING is clear.. So I WON'T SAY what I believe their faith is about..
fan
sarNie Juvenile
im buddhist...
this is some of my basic understanding and beliefs in Buddhism...
those that are thai probably know the saying of "pen gum gao" basically bad things that are happening to you in this life because of something that you did in a past life. it doesnt matter what those bad thing are, but that you realize that during your life now that you should do good. its really a matter of how you deal with the bad things occuring to you know that will decide your fate.
i dont find that concept far out of reach because if you look at it in terms of everyday life we are always affected by the choices we make and if something bad comes out of that choice, hopefully you will have the sense of mind to try and right that wrong. and we are affected by the actions of people we dont even know and sometimes bad things happen from that, which we in turn will try and make the good decision to counteract that action... which i guess can be seen as us in this life time being affected by us in another life time.
as for reaching nirvana, i believe that its merely a realization that what you have within you is enough and realizing that if all you do is continually want, there will never be an end to that want and you will never realize happiness.
also.... im not sure about Buddhism being the fastest growing religion, but i do believe that Islamic is the most wide spread religion, meaning it has the most followers.
this is some of my basic understanding and beliefs in Buddhism...
those that are thai probably know the saying of "pen gum gao" basically bad things that are happening to you in this life because of something that you did in a past life. it doesnt matter what those bad thing are, but that you realize that during your life now that you should do good. its really a matter of how you deal with the bad things occuring to you know that will decide your fate.
i dont find that concept far out of reach because if you look at it in terms of everyday life we are always affected by the choices we make and if something bad comes out of that choice, hopefully you will have the sense of mind to try and right that wrong. and we are affected by the actions of people we dont even know and sometimes bad things happen from that, which we in turn will try and make the good decision to counteract that action... which i guess can be seen as us in this life time being affected by us in another life time.
as for reaching nirvana, i believe that its merely a realization that what you have within you is enough and realizing that if all you do is continually want, there will never be an end to that want and you will never realize happiness.
also.... im not sure about Buddhism being the fastest growing religion, but i do believe that Islamic is the most wide spread religion, meaning it has the most followers.
Kina
Dubsteppin'
"Now the Muslim teaching.. Where it is still in the Qu'ran.. If you kill a non Muslim it's alright and you'll see Allah... Would Allah really see those who shed other blood just to see him.."---------be careful what u put. each verse actually talks about a specific event that happened during the time. now...in general, muslims dont kill non-muslims to go to heaven. u no...that is a big sin in Islam. maybe u should quote the verse that ur getting that from? bcz u got it wrong.vilasaeng said:
"Christian believe doing good for other and accepted GOD as their savor they'll go to heaven.."----NOOO...if they accept JESUS as saviour, they will go to heaven...but it doesnt make sense bcz Jesus cant determine for u. Jesus himself was a creation of GOD. this is obviously a misconception and a clear contradiction.
ive already talked about buddhism. buddhism was never meant to be a religion anyway. it was a PHILOSOPHY to begin with. its PEOPLE who corrupted it and turned it to religion.
see.. sensitive topic.. why? because people wont accept other's belief or how they see certain religion...
amira, just let it go.. i know you are offended.. but have you ever thought that when you talk about other religion.. they are offended too? another thing.. vilaseng isnt the only one who heard that quote.. i even heard that quote when i was taking world religion.. but that's not here nor there.. why? because when things are translated, it's not always 100% right.. just think of it this way.. you follow your good religious teaching.. and others will follow theirs.. what's the use of argueing or debating over something like religion? nothing good come out of it... it's different from other topics..
amira, just let it go.. i know you are offended.. but have you ever thought that when you talk about other religion.. they are offended too? another thing.. vilaseng isnt the only one who heard that quote.. i even heard that quote when i was taking world religion.. but that's not here nor there.. why? because when things are translated, it's not always 100% right.. just think of it this way.. you follow your good religious teaching.. and others will follow theirs.. what's the use of argueing or debating over something like religion? nothing good come out of it... it's different from other topics..
Kina
Dubsteppin'
i stated facts and clarifications. i was quoting what u said only because it was wrongly said....so i was saying if u want to quote something, quote it with source in order to not cause confusion among others and so i can maybe explain it. and yes, bcz u quoted it wrong i WAS offended a little bit, but im used to it because ive been through worse than that. also...yes, ur right about translation from another language can be wrong--in general ya no---in most contexts not all. plus...i was never by any means debating religion. i was never trying to prove which is wrong or right. i was basically stating facts from other religions and my own and clarifying it. how is that offensive to other people when its facts/clarifications that even most professors agree? again----i am not debating. it's not my thing and plus, my religion says its not kool to debate so im utilizing that to my use. but thank you for addressing me. it gave me the opportunity to clarify some things that u and/or others misunderstood.natty said:see.. sensitive topic.. why? because people wont accept other's belief or how they see certain religion...
amira, just let it go.. i know you are offended.. but have you ever thought that when you talk about other religion.. they are offended too? another thing.. vilaseng isnt the only one who heard that quote.. i even heard that quote when i was taking world religion.. but that's not here nor there.. why? because when things are translated, it's not always 100% right.. just think of it this way.. you follow your good religious teaching.. and others will follow theirs.. what's the use of argueing or debating over something like religion? nothing good come out of it... it's different from other topics..
[post="56631"][/post]
PS...on my previous post, i RESPECTIVELY quoted what u wrote without any grudge to debate or argue. i was just clarifying.
alright.......im gonna stop posting things on religion, tho it is of my interest to learn it in general for knowledge, but if i see something misquoted, whether it be from my religion or NOT, i will CLARIFY it--not argue against or along with it.
Salam (peace)
I'm sorry if the quoting was wrong. But that's what I heard and read. But thank you for clearify it for me. And for other religion.
I think that Religious topic will alway be heated no matter. No matter was words that put into or written about. One side will get offendent no matter what.
For me. I like it when when people get offendent and respond because it will help me clarify things up. Instead of keeping on thinking what I believe...
Sorry Amira I'm going to quote this again but this is my understand and I read it from discussion class.
"Muslim for killing other's non-Muslim so they could go see Allah" this is my quote.
If no Muslim clearify this ALMOST ALL THE NON-MUSLIM will believe what they hear and read.
one things. Amira...I didn't speak badly about your religious I was just quoting what I beleive and read. I don't expect everyone else to believe in what I say or quote. Because have their own mind.
" it was a PHILOSOPHY to begin with. its PEOPLE who corrupted it and
turned it to religion."
Yes. Buddhist was turned into a religion from CORRUPTED people WHO saw SAVAGE with this PHILOSOPHY instead of other religion.
Amira I wish you still post here. Because we, I believe, learnt alot from your clearifications. I and know you won't let other have miss understand about one religious.
Well that's it for now.. Talk to you late people.. :w000t:
I think that Religious topic will alway be heated no matter. No matter was words that put into or written about. One side will get offendent no matter what.
For me. I like it when when people get offendent and respond because it will help me clarify things up. Instead of keeping on thinking what I believe...
Sorry Amira I'm going to quote this again but this is my understand and I read it from discussion class.
"Muslim for killing other's non-Muslim so they could go see Allah" this is my quote.
If no Muslim clearify this ALMOST ALL THE NON-MUSLIM will believe what they hear and read.
one things. Amira...I didn't speak badly about your religious I was just quoting what I beleive and read. I don't expect everyone else to believe in what I say or quote. Because have their own mind.
" it was a PHILOSOPHY to begin with. its PEOPLE who corrupted it and
turned it to religion."
Yes. Buddhist was turned into a religion from CORRUPTED people WHO saw SAVAGE with this PHILOSOPHY instead of other religion.
Amira I wish you still post here. Because we, I believe, learnt alot from your clearifications. I and know you won't let other have miss understand about one religious.
Well that's it for now.. Talk to you late people.. :w000t:
amira.. one last quick question.. how do we know that muhammed is really the last prophet or actually a prophet for that matter? do we just accept and believe?
i'm not picking on islamic ok because i question jesus too.. as i question moses and so on.
also can you tell me about "The Sword of Allah" (i took the time to go look for my notes and this is what i found, if wrong please explain okies )
"Fight and slay the pagans (infidels) wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war". - Koran, Sura 9:5
"Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian) wrongdoers." - Koran, Sura 5:51-5:74
was this translated wrong or was this translated right but interpret wrong?
i'm not picking on islamic ok because i question jesus too.. as i question moses and so on.
also can you tell me about "The Sword of Allah" (i took the time to go look for my notes and this is what i found, if wrong please explain okies
)"Fight and slay the pagans (infidels) wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war". - Koran, Sura 9:5
"Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian) wrongdoers." - Koran, Sura 5:51-5:74
was this translated wrong or was this translated right but interpret wrong?
Like most people I've gone through many phases and tried different religions. I was raised to be a Buddhist/Christian housewhole. My family practise both and we attended church and temple.
Some how I branched out and got into Wiccan. I'm not a full believer of it, but its the one that i felt most comfortable with. I don't practise it anymore and the coven i used to be with have disband.
So now I'm back to square one and searching for what is right for me. Maybe I'll go back to what I was raise with maybe not.
Some how I branched out and got into Wiccan. I'm not a full believer of it, but its the one that i felt most comfortable with. I don't practise it anymore and the coven i used to be with have disband.
So now I'm back to square one and searching for what is right for me. Maybe I'll go back to what I was raise with maybe not.
Kina
Dubsteppin'
Thnx Natty & Vilasaeng for the q's/request of clarifications concerning the abovementioned verses.natty said:amira.. one last quick question.. how do we know that muhammed is really the last prophet or actually a prophet for that matter? do we just accept and believe?
i'm not picking on islamic ok because i question jesus too.. as i question moses and so on.
also can you tell me about "The Sword of Allah" (i took the time to go look for my notes and this is what i found, if wrong please explain okies
"Fight and slay the pagans (infidels) wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war". - Koran, Sura 9:5
"Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian) wrongdoers." - Koran, Sura 5:51-5:74
was this translated wrong or was this translated right but interpret wrong?
[post="57102"][/post]
please let me point out that the Quran wasn't as ONE book. Allah sent different verses to Prophet Muhammad in which he, the prophet, received from the arch-angel Jibreel, also known as Gabriel, the same angel who talked with jesus. So, the verses came in series of time, not all at once.
ok....having mentioned that, all those verses u listed are talking about one specific event that happened during that time when the jews/christians and the pagan arabs waged war against the muslims. so...those verses are specifically towards warning the muslims at THAT TIME to not befriend the pagans and the jews and christians because they are allies of one another. the verses isnt meant for throughout future, it's just for that specific time, so it doesnt mean that all muslims must kill or not befriend all pagans/jews/christians of the present/future.
About the Sword of Allah...i have heard this one too man times, as with the abovementioned verses. usually, people use it to belittle us and to proove us wrong or islam is bad, etc etc. im not saying, vilasang and natty, that ur using to do that, ok so dont misunderstand me
anywho...bk to it. the sword of allah, from what i understand was basically meant to spread islam by the sword, meaning to wage war by spreading islam. this isnt likely. we are forbidden to start any types of war/fights and we're forbidden to strike UNLESS they start first, we have to go along to protect ourselves. so...unless they start aggrevating/instigating first, we're to keep in peace. And another thing...if they start fighting us first and then they decline...we have to stop too and keep peace. let me post verses concering this:
--"Fight in the cause of God THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but DO NOT TRANSGRESS LIMITS; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
--"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
those verses clearly points out what i just mentioned. i hope i explained/clarified it carefully and understandably. it is my duty as a muslim to answer/clarify things misunderstood about muslims/islam, but i do not know much yet but i try to the best of my human and humble ability to do so.
Kina
Dubsteppin'
natty....it is a long explanation concerning muhammad being the last prophet. i dont have time right now, but when i do, ill try to explain. and no....ur not suppose to just believe. we all must question something to learn, and my religion encourage us to learn as much as possible and to have knowledge, be it that we're man or woman. so....ill come bk with something about this, but i will say that muhammad was prophecied in the OT that he will come to straighten up the religion, but this is where christians believe that jesus was the one but he's not the one that was prophecied. ill get into details later.
Kina
Dubsteppin'
to natty: i forgot to answer ur q about trans./interp.
on some of the verses, we dont take it as literal. it's hard to understand it sometimes. i mean when trying to interpret it by reading it in arabic. how can one translate something from such a complex language to, say..english? some arabic words are hard to translate to enlglish bcz english doesnt have a word for it. plus, the ancient arabic language of that time was complex, not like the arabic of today, even though the present's are complex, but ancient arabic is overall hard to understand. hence, since the Quran was ORIGINALLY in ancient arabic, it takes scholars who have studied the language to interpret what the verses actually mean. it is thus difficult to translate to english. thats why its important for all muslims who arent arab to study arabic so we can easily understand it better. i myself am studyng arabic. i can read and write but ihavent gotten to that level of dictating what an arabic word i read means lol.
on some of the verses, we dont take it as literal. it's hard to understand it sometimes. i mean when trying to interpret it by reading it in arabic. how can one translate something from such a complex language to, say..english? some arabic words are hard to translate to enlglish bcz english doesnt have a word for it. plus, the ancient arabic language of that time was complex, not like the arabic of today, even though the present's are complex, but ancient arabic is overall hard to understand. hence, since the Quran was ORIGINALLY in ancient arabic, it takes scholars who have studied the language to interpret what the verses actually mean. it is thus difficult to translate to english. thats why its important for all muslims who arent arab to study arabic so we can easily understand it better. i myself am studyng arabic. i can read and write but ihavent gotten to that level of dictating what an arabic word i read means lol.
sunisa
Guest
I do respect other religions.Like Buddhist,those religions have their own belief.But I hate it when people believe one religion and disrespect other religions.About three years ago,there is this girl in my homeorom ask me what is my religion.So,I told her I'm Buddhist.Then,she start saying things like Buddha don't exist in this world,only Christian.I was so mad that I don't know what to say.I just move my desk away from her.I don't really care what religion she is.I just don't get why she has to say that rude thing about my religion.I hate those kind of people.
sero
sarNie Egg
wow, sunisa...
she seem harse to ya but it most of the people who is christian they present the information wrong. As for me use to be buddhist and now a Christian you have to understand the basic.
Christian have historical support in dead sea scroll etc, more than any religion out there but the reason why alot of people in the world are christian is because if you study Israel; what they went throught and certain event happen in their history; you can not denied somebody up there have a hand in it. historically, most the war between Israel and other country happen on a date that is exactly or parallel. in mathimatical term this is like winning the lottery, unless a higher being is protecting that country..
she seem harse to ya but it most of the people who is christian they present the information wrong. As for me use to be buddhist and now a Christian you have to understand the basic.
Christian have historical support in dead sea scroll etc, more than any religion out there but the reason why alot of people in the world are christian is because if you study Israel; what they went throught and certain event happen in their history; you can not denied somebody up there have a hand in it. historically, most the war between Israel and other country happen on a date that is exactly or parallel. in mathimatical term this is like winning the lottery, unless a higher being is protecting that country..