General Vang Pao Arrested????

[Muddie Murda]

Trust me, I have read just about all of these comments, and you are right, they are mostly Hmong people hating on Hmong people, that is why it hurts even more. Right this place is diversed, and I think that other inputs are very important as well. I did not specify that it is these people in this forum that are hating. I just think that in the real world, there are A LOT of people hating on Hmong people, including Hmong people, and other races... If my thoughts and feelings offend anyone, I am sorry...

Just like right now, people in this forum are using this to discriminate us. Now, they can use this incident with General Vang Pao and discriminate us even more. We are being looked down upon left and right, everywhere, including this very forum.

Yes, I was very offended because I really don't like racism stuff and try to keep this board free of that. But many of the members don't have a problem with immature things like that. Just a few that spoils it for others.

This is why I only want to stick here in this forum while talking about this subject and not go to a Hmong forum website because they'll discriminate so bad on those who are non-hmong.

 

[bugsy]

Are you Hmong or not? Aren't you hurt from hearing this. Do you have feelings too. My gosh, why do we (the hmong poeple) have someone like you exist in our own blood. Who do you think you are? You shouldn't be sitting on your computer and talk shit about our leader. Without him, you will still living in Laos right now. I wish you are one of the people who are living in the jungle right now who are getting kill everyday. Why can't those people be you and you be them. You need to learn more about our history. I'm so ashamed of everything you say. What you should do is supporting everybody who went through all of these. Even though you are totally disagree with them, atleast they're doing it for a reason.

Wow...its getting HOTT in here!! Anyways...that was very very immature and rude of you to say that you wish JaM to be one of those suffering in the jungles and question her bloodline to yours. Sure, this is a debate and a mighty fired up one but I think you went over the line with your criticism. Im sorry, but if you hadnt noticed...we all have a difference in opinions about GVP and you just have to accept that. Why do we have these differences? We didnt just wake up one morning and say to ourselves, "well, I guess Im going to hate GVP from now on," did we? There are many reasons why people hate him, reasons why people favor him, and reasons why people really dont care for either sides. Don't hate just cause someone doesnt take on the same views as you do.

And why you gotta be talking as if on behalf of the Hmong population. One thing you should know about Hmong people (or humans in general) by now is that we are always disagreeing so who made you the spokesperson? As for GVP, as many have stated earlier, he is not the sole reason why we are in the US and elsewhere across the globe; but even if he was, he definately was not the reason on how Hmong Americans grew up and survived in this nation. He may have been the guy recruited from the CIA to recruit Hmong men to team with the Americans but him alone couldnt have protected all those American pilots. It was our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers who did and I owe my respects to them, not GVP. But besides this history talk, I think what we really have to do now is look to the future and see whats in store for us and think about how much more effort we now have to put into proving past and soon to be arising stereotypes false.

 

[darvil]

A topic like this which encompass many different groups is better discussed in a place where there are a fair amount of representations; otherwise it'll become too one sided.

Although it is good to remember atrocities and crimes against humanity, I don't think its a good idea to use these violent past to give oneself an excuse to support something like this. I think alot of us need to rise above it and not be too overwhelmed by it.

I grew up in Burma and there are many groups of people there with no countries and are battling the government. See the problem I see is that if you go back far enough in time, you will see that every group has been involved in something nasty. You have the Burmese raping and pillaging the Karens and then you hear the Karens doing the same thing. Then you have the Shans, Mons, Arakanese etc etc.

And also the statement about America not helping the Hmong people. I think America has done decent enough. I mean look at the large population of Hmong people in the US. How many more do we want? The whole hmong group living in SE Asia? Stop the violence there? How? landing American troops? How are you going to manage that? I mean it really is too much expectation from some people here.

If you look at the Vietnam war for example, can America absorb the whole south Vietnam? No they can't but America DID import alot of Vietnamese to the US.

The problem is that American cannot absorb every disfranchised groups in the world. You want to talk about the Hmong people? Well what about all the groups in Burma? What about Africa? What about Latin and South America?

I do grudgingly admire the loyalty some of you guys displayed to your people but I feel like its narrowing yourself to such a limited scope. Then again I'm a pessimistic person and I don't trust ex-generals. Esp one who is on such a ridiculous notion.

I guess we'll wait to see what else comes out of this.

 

[rukD2B]

In Thailand, I don't hear much about Maew fearing for their lives by the Thai soldiers. Please clarify... because I do not want Hmongs, Laos, or any young Thai readers to misunderstand... if its true... please clarify. I remember reading in another post how Thai's were pulling out graves and feeding them to the dogs with armed soldiers forcing the Hmongs to watch helpless which after researching it was sooo out of context.

Anyways... interesting topic!

Ha, ha. Dyno, how funny. The Thai word for Hmongs is "Maew," correct? LOLs.
In Hmong, it means "Monsters." It's actually a baby word for monsters. How
cute!!! Imagine me as monster. LOLs. I'm just saying. This topic needs to
lighten up the mood a little. Who said it, I forgot. Just because of this tiny
little event, it doesn't mean that the world is over. True, true, true.

Interesting topic? I think it's boring and funny at the same time, not interesting.
I mean, here we all are, sitting in the Hmong section, talking about some guy
who nearly attacked Laos and failed. So, all the people are at each others' throats
about it. La, la, la. Everyone will back up their people. I admire that. But some
folks do it by bad-talking about others or saying some weird stuff that's senseless.
It's funny too, because it just is. LOLs. I'm laughing, but I'm not that immature,
am I? It's just, reading all this stuff is starting to get boring. It's like going in circles.
We read one post, "Oh, I agree. Laotians are bad." Read the next post, "Oh wait, I
change my mind. Laotians are good." And then was it me who dragged the Thai people
into this? My bad. The Thai people have nothing to do with this event, other than the
fact that Thailand caught these stupid heads who thought they could conquer a country.

Agh, if my Hmong people were going to give the Hmongs a country, at least do it
in some good way. I mean, guilt loves to eat me over. And living in a country that
it yours because you knew that you attacked that piece of land and killed it's real
owners just to get it, damn, that kills me over. Aren't you ruining the lives of others?
I know, I know. That's how war and politics go, but still. Guilt trip.

I'm glad the Laotians and Thais are putting their input into this. We have to look at things
through more than one point of view. Respect each others' opinions. If not, folks are just
starting war themselves. Durr, why do gangs fight each other? Ding, ding, ding! It's just
common sense. *Yawns. This topic's boring now. I think I won't come back. LOLs.

 

[lovebird_tmi]

my turn!!

i believe that something needs to be done regarding the atrocities happening in the highlands of Laos to those Hmong ppl still there. What? I don't know. By whom? Again, i don't know.

But what i do know about MYSELF: I don't condone the actions noted in the news articles regarding that which GVP and other "Hmong leaders" are accused of. For now, it's still just that, accusations. Until they are proven innocent or guilty, they are still accusations.

the end does not justify the means. The reason may have been good, but the execution of the plan was STUPID. you wanna help Hmong ppl, you help Hmong ppl, you don't go around planning the bombing of government buildings and potential killings of innocent lives. an eye for an eye solves NOTHING. it's only a cirlce of murders.

myself, i don't have much respect for GVP, but i also don't hate him. However, RESPECT and HATRED are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

and i don't believe that you have to be a GVP supporter to be Hmoob. nor does a person who is not Hmoob have to be a hater of GVP. that reasoning is again, STUPID.

now, i know anti-hmong has been harsh on hmoob before, but still, he/she is entitled to post his/her opinion--just as everyone else has been--but it's just that.. OUR OPINIONS.

bashing eachother for not thinking the same as you only harms yourself. If the description fits, yeah, i'm talking about you then. if the description doesn't fit, then no, i'm not talking about you.

 

[dynomite]

Ha, ha. Dyno, how funny. The Thai word for Hmongs is "Maew," correct? LOLs.
In Hmong, it means "Monsters." It's actually a baby word for monsters. How
cute!!! Imagine me as monster. LOLs. I'm just saying.

Actually, Hmong doesn't really translate to Maew... here let me share:

So here's my story of how I got verbally abused and sent home hurt so you guys can have a good laugh.

When I was young and met my first Hmong person... slash little monster, just kidding and thanks for that tidbit of info.

Conversation between me and this Hmong person.

Me: "what's a Hmong?" You guys were so foreign to me... I was thinking why are there so many of you in central california... I've never heard of it. You are always in large groups.

Him: explaining Hmongs ... basically mainly from the mountains of Laos, with sprinkles here and there like Thailand

Me: "Oh, hills tribe in Thailand... I know Maew." Are you Maew?

Him: "Dude... f*#@ you!"

Me: ????

Him: "you calling me Maew is like me calling a black person n*#&@#"

Me: defensive and tryiing to justify... "but this is what Thai people call the hillstribe people in Thailand" and I have never met anyone in Thailand who was Maew who got upset by this term. (I wanted to use the pussy cat look from Shrek, but it doesn't work on guys... and shrek didn't exist then :^P )

Him: "Dude don't call us that" "We are Hmongs, and you Thai's are always trying to supress us"

Me: shocked and hurt.. I quietly leave as no information to be pro or con against his claims. admits defeat and ignorance and hobbles home

After justifying and explaining, he gave no acknowledgement to my statements and continued to be adament that I was the moron. So I left shocked at being one of those kind of people. I was hurt and sad that I was ignorant to what he said. I went back and asked family members and read up and found out Hmongs and Maew are different. There are Mien and Karen and others. Each a different group... each a different identity. Jeez... I was miserable for a long time. Went back to Thailand to see if anyone or their Mom called thai hillstribe people Hmong... nope...

I was soo furious. This guy was like hateful of me from the get go and I could never understand why. He always had this animosity which I could never figure out. There were other Hmongs and no... it was only this one person or atleast blatantly hated me. When I asked what his problem was, people had no idea.

He doesn't like you cause you are Thai. But why? No one had any answer. (And don't worry peeps... I'm not low educated... this was not a poor reflection on Hmongs in general.)

He was raised to consider Maew to be an insult and said people were uneducated and was taught or maybe the translation as Joey said, means little monster. He should be upset.. I didn't know that maew is derogatory. I believed him and felt miserable for being insensitive. You confirm his thinking... little monster huh?

And then I went back and found out through many resources, but let me provide one here to show that this IS miscommunication and what is taught within Hmong's from Laos misinterpret from people like say me or others in Thailand. And information is disseminated with my logic therefore, he or anyone who takes it as an insult should reconsider their thinking or share this misunderstanding and be more forgiving ya know? Or burn all the resources and education that resulted in the name Maew. I even had friends named Maew. So if Maew is soo negative and a derogotory term, do you think Thai people would actually name their child it? Soo..... (moral of story... keep things in context)

This reference even states Hmongs want to be called Hmongs... so I hope it's credible enough, wiki has some weird stuff about China which is going back way too far for me, but hey... I call whoever is Hmong Hmong, but Maew is a tribe in Thailand and if you state you are from Thailand, don't hate... love thy neighbor, if they say, "oh a Maew!" :^)

http://books.google.com/books?id=VpYWn5jAg...8AM_sM#PPT79,M1


So that's my story Joey... nigg#$ vs. little monster is enlightening for me and appreciate the share. Hopefully you don't get mad if you hear people ask you if you are Maew. That's my education sharing of the day and hopefully a better understanding betwen Hmong and Thai people. :^)

Peace in the middleeast... and in southern Thailand... and in Laos. :^P

damn... I'm always off topic.

Joey you are soo innocent... it's cute. this intellectual stuff in a lakorn, music infested site is weird huh? 555

politics.. blah... that's why they say never discuss politics & religion on a first date... or it can turn out to be something like this.... glad I'm an innocent bystander :^)

Goes back out to read from a far.... (crosses fingers Thailand doesn't get bashed again and yes it does hurt me cause I got hated on for being Thai (case in point above... I feel like such a minority sometimes and I'm Thai dammit. 555)

 

[mai92]

My dad told me that maybe General Vang Pao did it on purpose so that he can get the Vietnamese to talk about the killing that they did to the Hmong people in the jungle.

You guys know how they made videos on the Hmong People how they tell that they needed help on weapons and they wanted to get out of the jungle?

Well, I guess that is why he helped them, and My Dad told me that he did it so that the Vietnamese can come to court in the United States.

I guess because there is videos on the little kids how they got bombed on so I think that made General Vang Pao very mad so he decided to do it this way.

 

[rukD2B]

my turn!!

i believe that something needs to be done regarding the atrocities happening in the highlands of Laos to those Hmong ppl still there. What? I don't know. By whom? Again, i don't know.

But what i do know about MYSELF: I don't condone the actions noted in the news articles regarding that which GVP and other "Hmong leaders" are accused of. For now, it's still just that, accusations. Until they are proven innocent or guilty, they are still accusations.

the end does not justify the means. The reason may have been good, but the execution of the plan was STUPID. you wanna help Hmong ppl, you help Hmong ppl, you don't go around planning the bombing of government buildings and potential killings of innocent lives. an eye for an eye solves NOTHING. it's only a cirlce of murders.

myself, i don't have much respect for GVP, but i also don't hate him. However, RESPECT and HATRED are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

and i don't believe that you have to be a GVP supporter to be Hmoob. nor does a person who is not Hmoob have to be a hater of GVP. that reasoning is again, STUPID.

now, i know anti-hmong has been harsh on hmoob before, but still, he/she is entitled to post his/her opinion--just as everyone else has been--but it's just that.. OUR OPINIONS.

bashing eachother for not thinking the same as you only harms yourself. If the description fits, yeah, i'm talking about you then. if the description doesn't fit, then no, i'm not talking about you.

Agreed! You're right. Respect and hatred are two different things.
We don't have to respect VP just because we're Hmong.
I'm not going to kiss his feet because he's Hmong. That's
just stupid. Back then VP was respectable, but now, he's
not even really respected by the bigger group. I mean,
a majority of the Hmongs know and remember his good
deed. But just because he was good once to us, doesn't
mean that he'll be good to us forever.

He was raised to consider Maew to be an insult and said people were uneducated and was taught or maybe the translation as Joey said, means little monster. He should be upset.. I didn't know that maew is derogatory. I believed him and felt miserable for being insensitive. You confirm his thinking... little monster huh?

This reference even states Hmongs want to be called Hmongs... so I hope it's credible enough, wiki has some weird stuff about China which is going back way too far for me, but hey... I call whoever is Hmong Hmong, but Maew is a tribe in Thailand and if you state you are from Thailand, don't hate... love thy neighbor, if they say, "oh a Maew!" :^)

politics.. blah... that's why they say never discuss politics & religion on a first date... or it can turn out to be something like this.... glad I'm an innocent bystander :^)

Ha, ha. Poor Dyno. I can't believe that dude said that.
Damn. Embarrassing. Some folks call us Mien. And yeah, we're partially
Chinese too, if you trace it that far back. We were a different tribe of
Chinese with different beliefs and religions. Because the emperor
wanted everyone to convert to his religion, he forced the Hmongs to
convert, but the Hmongs refused. For some reason, it was believed
that the Hmongs' bones are herbal and can be good medicine. So,
if a Hmong refused to side with the emperor, he would kill them for
their bones. Hmongs refused and fled from China to Laos. Some
Hmongs chickened out and sided with the emperor. However, today,
they still remain as the "Cos," as we call it. Some folks call it Mien, as
I've heard it. After living in the forests of Laos, the Laotians didn't like it.
Because of that, they started to kill the Hmongs. Due to that, the Hmongs
fled to Thailand, but that was a very scary thing to try. My dad said that
he pretended to be a Thai soldier so that the Thais wouldn't kill him. But
anyways, that's how we're related to China. After learning about this
even, whenever some white kid asks me, "Are you Chinese?" I go, "Sorta."

But I can't believe that kid said that to you. Oh my god, I'm ashamed of him.
LOLs. JK. And how old was he? A boy got insulted so quickly, he's not a man.
And he made you all sad about it. Agh, Hmongs like to pull legs. They never
want to do anything for free. They only want to do things that will benefit them.
Like, my parents trip if my siblings give blood. Weird, but yeah.

Maew does mean "monster." It's like when a baby says "Ga-ga-goo-goo."
When a baby is crying, we go "Ooh, you better stop crying, there's a Maew
under the bed that's going to come get you if you don't." Maew and Hmongs
would almost be similar, just not that much. We have a weird religion. Like
my parents say, "Don't go around telling people that you believe in the devil!"
We don't believe in the devil, but we just believe in a different god. I don't
know much about him. Just that we have medicine men who can do jingles
and talk to dead spirits. Weird. I know. Hmongs are weird. ^__^

----Again, no offense everyone. I hope I'm an innocent bystander too.

 

[Chewy]

I know the General Vang Pao is a hot item ATM. We're not sure what's going on yet, but only the news on tv, newspaper and rumors I think it's great that we support each other thought hard time, but if some one violate the law do you still support them? i was shock about this news. He's trying to help the people back in Laos, is violent is going to solve it? No wonder there is no peace at all. Base on my experince in the Thailand camp, EVERYONE was giving the opportunity to come to the USA, but a lot of people back out! so if you ask me!...i DO NOT Feel bad for the people who back out and now that they see the hmong are successful in USA...they want to come....Also like Natty mention.....the Thai did let us stay on their land before we come to the USA. One of the thing i don't like about the Hmong Community is that........one event happen and there are like 1000 different stories. I think that's why everyone get different answer and feel differently about this issue.

oh one last thing....i remembered filling out the naturaliztion paper to become citizen.......there are questions asking about if even been in a organization that trying to overthrow other governement or a group that is trying to overthrow the government. i mean Vang Pao is a US citizen and know the laws well but still go ahead with his plans.....ummm...i don't know about this.

Also USA is been good to us. They gave us food, clothes, shelter and EDUCATION!!!! Can we have all these if we were back in Laos. What can we do in Laos if we were to go back. Plus it was not OURs from the beginning....that's why it's call LAOS!!!! Not HMONG...

This is my take on this issue. We won't know the Truth until it settle and everything comes out...but i don't know if we EVER will know the TRUTH!!!...OMG ...what is TRUTH???????

 

[ceda_lee]

JESUS!!! I'm gone for a night and all this...haha...hot topic eh?

Someone mentioned that it's all because of GVP that Hmong people are in this sh*t, that he made the decision to support the US for himself and to gain status...and that he used the Hmong people...you may need to go back and re-evaluated what you've been told...North Vietnam at the time were already killing Hmong people...I believe GVP made his decisions based on what was occuring at the time...

Again...people are coming up with these accusations...either that GVP was too good or too bad...we must consider that the fact that we the younger generations feed off of what we've been told...how do we know what is true or what's not...so go out there and look for the answers yourself...

 

[max]

Just like right now, people in this forum are using this to discriminate us. Now, they can use this incident with General Vang Pao and discriminate us even more. We are being looked down upon left and right, everywhere, including this very forum.

Yes, I was very offended because I really don't like racism stuff and try to keep this board free of that. But many of the members don't have a problem with immature things like that. Just a few that spoils it for others.

This is why I only want to stick here in this forum while talking about this subject and not go to a Hmong forum website because they'll discriminate so bad on those who are non-hmong.

Well, I hope you know that I am not stating that to people like you, just to people like Anti-Hmong who likes to bash on and make a lot more people feel weird. You are right, this is my favorite forum because we can all come together and talk even though we may not agree, as long as we do not get as violent as... the other forums I have been to.

 

[ceda_lee]

How do you people go from respect to kissing his feet? Stop exaggerating! I guess what some people mean by respect in here is respect to him as a person and for the "good" things he's done (at least to their belief)...like, how you respect your friends, your parents, etc...just because you respect them doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to kiss their feet...if you think you're do...I'm sorry, but gosh...how retarded!!

 

[ceda_lee]

GVP getting arrested made the front page of the Sac Bee...following, I hope the genocides in Laos makes front page in the New York Times!

 

[max]

GVP getting arrested made the front page of the Sac Bee...following, I hope the genocides in Laos makes front page in the New York Times!

Like, EXACTLY!!!!!

 

[ceda_lee]

To Dynomite:

I was six years old at the time, old enough to consolidate visual memories...the camp that my family was in was very small and crowded...it was gated by bricks and those wires with thorns sticking out...that was to prevent us from leaving...there were about 7 rows of duplex-look-alike homes...each family was given one room, regardless of family size...there were 9 of us in a room about 13' X 14' and we also have a little dirt yard...my parents usually sleep out there on a "lev" or hmong rug...we were very fortunate to have them...our neighbors sleep in carboards...there is a tower in front of the only entrance gate...in it are 2 sometimes 3 or 4 Thai securities...we weren't allow to go out at all...once a week, a truck comes in and brings us food...we'd have the same food for a week...sometimes when the security guards are out of sight or on their breaks, our relatives from the outside would throw some fruits and fish to us...I remembered my parents crying a lot! Fortunately, my dad was very good friends with some Thai people...one of them was "huam naj xab tib" or captain sak tee...I will appreciate this guy for the rest of my life...he helped my family with application fees to come to the US...also, he and his wife had the authority to come into the camp and took my family out for trips...because of him, we were release from the camp sooner than everyone else...

this is every emotional for me right now...you can see why I am passionate about this...I've come a long to be who I am today...I am almost a successful woman, but I will never forget where I came from.

No country is bad! Often, when one hmong guy does something bad then all hmong is bad...or if one Thai person is bad, then the rest of them are bad too...this applies to everyone...just like Iraqis think all Americans are bad...you see??? We have to realize that everyone is different and have different beliefs...and they'll do things that others won't do...

 

[Muddie Murda]

I believe some Hmongs indicated that the word "Meaw"or "Meo" means "slave" or something like that. Read it in a book somewhere...

 

[ceda_lee]

It means "slave" or "barbarian."

 

[natty]

ceda that is some story.. i hear about suffering in refugee camps from the older laos people as well.. i used to go home with my friend during summer and sometime holidays back in highschool... her parents live in the laos community in fort worth texas. her grandfather,parents and their friends would tell us and trade stories about the time they live in refugee camps while waiting for a church member here in america to sponsor them. some of their stories are very tearful.. so it's not only the hmongs that had it bad and got kick out of laos. laos people also had it bad and kicked out of their own country by their own brothers..


so i would like to know (for those who can answer).. how did vang pao help you guys to come to america? did he sponsor all of you? i'm pretty sure it wasn't him that help the banish laos people to come to america but instead it was the government who advertise for sponsors and it's those sponsors who forked out the money for plane tickets as well as rent for the first couple of months/years. if vang pao were the one who sponsor then i can totally understand why you so worship him.

 

[dynomite]

so... in Hmong you have like several different meanings for one word?

slave, barbarian, monster and i was told meant as bad as n#@#!$!

hmm.... it just doesn't makse sense

on top of that... maew's are not used as slaves, nor look like monsters, nor behave like barbarians...

Oh... thanks Ceda & Natty for the refugee stories. I didn't really know about the Laos stories...

anyways Vang Pao peeps.. Vang Pao... :^P

 

[ceda_lee]

Maybe I didn't have it as bad as the Japanese did during WWII or the Jews, but it was quite an experience...

GVP didn't help my family get here...my dad's friends did...however, I believe GVP's decision to allied with the US affects why I am here today!